Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:28 am

I have been an active Titan supporter for 52 years and I don't think we have met. The MIAA suggestion was a good fit to what I was hearing many on here express as a desirable fit. It wasn't that long ago that Northern Kentucky, Oakland and Valpo were Division 2. Northern Kentucky is probably the best program in the Horizon and they are the newest to D1.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:47 am

upbasketballfan wrote:I have been an active Titan supporter for 52 years and I don't think we have met. The MIAA suggestion was a good fit to what I was hearing many on here express as a desirable fit. It wasn't that long ago that Northern Kentucky, Oakland and Valpo were Division 2. Northern Kentucky is probably the best program in the Horizon and they are the newest to D1.


Some of us said joining the MAAC is a bad deal because the constant travel cost to NY isn’t worth it and you conclude that our line of reasoning extends to dropping down to a D3 league? Sorry we didn’t specify in our posts that being D1 offers enormous opportunities and benefits for the school - thought that could go unsaid.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:51 am

Although our school has little in common with our State-supported fellow HL universities, we do have some things in common. First, our athletic department budget is in the top tier of HL teams. Second, our per conference game attendance was comparable to UIC and higher than 3 other HL schools. Plus, we had the largest growth percentage in home attendance of any HL team.

Is it merely coincidence that the three HL teams with the highest average attendance have been the three most successful programs on the court in recent years and have campuses located in the suburbs or exurbs of older midwest cities? Youngstown State may be an exception to this correlation.

However, on the other board, Commissioner posted some interesting attendance stats. Our average attendance last year was 215th in the nation. The A-10's average per game attendance was about 4800. The MAAC's was about 1800. Our average attendance for our HL home games was 10% above the average attendance for a MAAC home game.

What we see on TV in the power conference games is unusual for the entire D-1 universe of teams. If we do what is necessary to double our home game attendance, we would be comparable to the average team in the A-10 and the top teams in the HL. This is an entirely reachable goal if we, as a university together with alumni and fans, decide to make the capital investment needed to make up for the recent decades of neglect. It's an achievable goal.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:12 am

Great point, ptc. Attendance matters. Maybe people need to think about ways to make attending games a better experience. Obviously winning freaking games consistently is the main ingredient. Not saying I’m the expert on this by any means because I haven’t been to a home game in years. Do fans still have to pay for parking? That’s kind of a hassle. I go to other ncaa MBB games and it’s not uncommon to have free parking. Not sure wha OU does.

Then there’s the things we’ve discussed on this board to get students to attend. Not sure what the solution is but we desperately need more bodies in 313 - it doesn’t look good on tv to see an empty student section.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:25 am

upbasketballfan wrote:I have been an active Titan supporter for 52 years and I don't think we have met. The MIAA suggestion was a good fit to what I was hearing many on here express as a desirable fit. It wasn't that long ago that Northern Kentucky, Oakland and Valpo were Division 2. Northern Kentucky is probably the best program in the Horizon and they are the newest to D1.

If we ever meet someday, it will be a first! And even if you’re the only person on earth advocating that Detroit Mercy athletes goes D3 some day, there’s always room under the Titan tent for fans with exceptional viewpoints.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:26 am

Tacitus651 wrote:Great point, ptc. Attendance matters. Maybe people need to think about ways to make attending games a better experience. Obviously winning freaking games consistently is the main ingredient. Not saying I’m the expert on this by any means because I haven’t been to a home game in years. Do fans still have to pay for parking? That’s kind of a hassle. I go to other ncaa MBB games and it’s not uncommon to have free parking. Not sure wha OU does.

Then there’s the things we’ve discussed on this board to get students to attend. Not sure what the solution is but we desperately need more bodies in 313 - it doesn’t look good on tv to see an empty student section.

Yes, there is a $5 charge for parking. OU does not charge. Generally speaking, Oakland does a better job with marketing and game day experience, and as we look to improve the Titan program overall, that’s a good place to concentrate significant attention IMO.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:22 am

Rogo, would a commuter student need to pay the $5? Or would he be able to park for free with his annual parking pass?
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:27 am

Tacitus651 wrote:Rogo, would a commuter student need to pay the $5? Or would he be able to park for free with his annual parking pass?

Students, faculty and staff don’t have to pay.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:25 pm

Rogobob77 wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:I have been an active Titan supporter for 52 years and I don't think we have met. The MIAA suggestion was a good fit to what I was hearing many on here express as a desirable fit. It wasn't that long ago that Northern Kentucky, Oakland and Valpo were Division 2. Northern Kentucky is probably the best program in the Horizon and they are the newest to D1.

If we ever meet someday, it will be a first! And even if you’re the only person on earth advocating that Detroit Mercy athletes goes D3 some day, there’s always room under the Titan tent for fans with exceptional viewpoints.


I am not an advocate of going D3. I brought up the MIAA because it checks all the boxes except the ego box. I would not drive over 1000 miles for home games to watch a D3 game if it were the national championship but some on here will not drive 50 miles to watch their Alma Mater play something they describe as their main rival yet somehow they consider themselves real fans. That is why I made the Missouri comment. Missouri is the SHOW ME STATE. Many on here seem to be holding back, wanting change but not wanting change. Saying they are fans but not making a commitment to be a real fan. You need a lot more Big Chucks, uofdfan1983's, Titan Mikes and Titan Reggies. Those who give of themselves to make it better for the rest of us.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:21 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
Rogobob77 wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:I have been an active Titan supporter for 52 years and I don't think we have met. The MIAA suggestion was a good fit to what I was hearing many on here express as a desirable fit. It wasn't that long ago that Northern Kentucky, Oakland and Valpo were Division 2. Northern Kentucky is probably the best program in the Horizon and they are the newest to D1.

If we ever meet someday, it will be a first! And even if you’re the only person on earth advocating that Detroit Mercy athletes goes D3 some day, there’s always room under the Titan tent for fans with exceptional viewpoints.


I am not an advocate of going D3. I brought up the MIAA because it checks all the boxes except the ego box. I would not drive over 1000 miles for home games to watch a D3 game if it were the national championship but some on here will not drive 50 miles to watch their Alma Mater play something they describe as their main rival yet somehow they consider themselves real fans. That is why I made the Missouri comment. Missouri is the SHOW ME STATE. Many on here seem to be holding back, wanting change but not wanting change. Saying they are fans but not making a commitment to be a real fan. You need a lot more Big Chucks, uofdfan1983's, Titan Mikes and Titan Reggies. Those who give of themselves to make it better for the rest of us.

But just yesterday you said a D3 conference was a perfect fit for Detroit Mercy, and when pressed you said you were not being sarcastic! On Sunday you identified the inferior OVC as a conference we should spend big dollars to move to if it would get us a quick exit out of the Horizon. Trust me, the guys you mentioned above are on a different wave length.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:51 pm

Rogobob, I think the Horizon is a crap league run by what I perceive to be a self serving complacent dinosaur. The horizon has become an entry level league and is in a free fall. If you go on to the HL web site there is talk of Southern Indiana and Bellarmine as possible new members. The OVC does have 12 members including at least 2 ( Belmont and Murray State) who are superior in basketball to anything in existence in the HL. I suggested MIAA because it does have prior wants mentioned on this site. Private religion supported schools, with exceptional academics, geographically close, and similar to our size. I feel we are treading water with the Horizon hanging on our legs pulling us to the undercurrent and adding more dead weight each year. The OVC might be rated below the HL but they do have teams that not only get to the Dance but win a few game while they are there. Except for Butler, it has been a long time since HL teams have won a game let alone 2 or 3. The winner of the HL is expected to lose.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:37 pm

I hope HL does add Bellarmine. And Lewis in due time. Two respectable catholic institutions. You can say those schools are (will be) newbies to D1 and we should be embarrassed to be associated with them, but I disagree. Give credit to schools that improve themselves. We’re not entitled to anything because we went to the Sweet 16 in 1977.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:58 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:Rogobob, I think the Horizon is a crap league run by what I perceive to be a self serving complacent dinosaur. The horizon has become an entry level league and is in a free fall. If you go on to the HL web site there is talk of Southern Indiana and Bellarmine as possible new members. The OVC does have 12 members including at least 2 ( Belmont and Murray State) who are superior in basketball to anything in existence in the HL. I suggested MIAA because it does have prior wants mentioned on this site. Private religion supported schools, with exceptional academics, geographically close, and similar to our size. I feel we are treading water with the Horizon hanging on our legs pulling us to the undercurrent and adding more dead weight each year. The OVC might be rated below the HL but they do have teams that not only get to the Dance but win a few game while they are there. Except for Butler, it has been a long time since HL teams have won a game let alone 2 or 3. The winner of the HL is expected to lose.


Butler and Xavier put money behind their concerted efforts to move up and out of the HL into a better conference before they moved. The reason we are not in a better conference is that from 1979 to just recently, our school decided to prioritize other things and invested only minimal capital into athletics above and beyond what donors gave with specific instructions. We cannot just call up the A-10, say we want in and expect a response, "How fast can you join us?" If we want to move to a better conference, then we have to prove that we have value today and in the next decade. We control our own way to success. It starts by becoming a factor in what you call our "crap league." In today's world of college basketball, that requires that money be invested. That enables better facilities for players. In turn, those facilities attract more of the better players. Better results plus intelligent marketing will start to put more butts in the seats at Calihan. It won't happen overnight. But we can expect a noticeable improvement over the next 2-3 years if we all pull together and do what we can. That will mean different things for different people. For some, it will mean attending more home games. For others, it will mean increasing their contributions and earmarking them for men's BB. For a few, it could mean making significant financial donations that, in turn, attract other partners and corporate interest.

The time for continually bitching about our situation is over. It's time to act and support the university when it announces a specific program to upgrade men's BB and other sports teams.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:03 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:Rogobob, I think the Horizon is a crap league run by what I perceive to be a self serving complacent dinosaur. The horizon has become an entry level league and is in a free fall. If you go on to the HL web site there is talk of Southern Indiana and Bellarmine as possible new members. The OVC does have 12 members including at least 2 ( Belmont and Murray State) who are superior in basketball to anything in existence in the HL. I suggested MIAA because it does have prior wants mentioned on this site. Private religion supported schools, with exceptional academics, geographically close, and similar to our size. I feel we are treading water with the Horizon hanging on our legs pulling us to the undercurrent and adding more dead weight each year. The OVC might be rated below the HL but they do have teams that not only get to the Dance but win a few game while they are there. Except for Butler, it has been a long time since HL teams have won a game let alone 2 or 3. The winner of the HL is expected to lose.

If you read the MVC boards and some tea leaves, it looks like Murray St. is the odds-on-favorite to get the next invite to join that league, likely relatively soon. So then the OVC conference is down to having one semi-decent team left, and sinks even further below the Horizon by any objective measure (Sagarin, RET, etc.). That’s where you want to go, lower rated conference on a downward trajectory? Sorry, I aspire for something better than where we are right now like the MVC or A-10, the obvious within stretch-reach destinations that make any sense. I don’t buy your anywhere-else-is-better-than-the-Horizon argument. There are directions (such as moving to the OVC) that I believe would be a total misuse of resources that should be strategically allocated to make UDM a good candidate for a real upgrade. If it feels good to thump your chest and call for quick fix solutions (that won’t really fix anything) such as moving to an even worse crappy flea-bag league, and that make you feel like a “show me” kind of guy, go for it.
Last edited by Rogobob77 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:55 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm

ptctitan wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:Rogobob, I think the Horizon is a crap league run by what I perceive to be a self serving complacent dinosaur. The horizon has become an entry level league and is in a free fall. If you go on to the HL web site there is talk of Southern Indiana and Bellarmine as possible new members. The OVC does have 12 members including at least 2 ( Belmont and Murray State) who are superior in basketball to anything in existence in the HL. I suggested MIAA because it does have prior wants mentioned on this site. Private religion supported schools, with exceptional academics, geographically close, and similar to our size. I feel we are treading water with the Horizon hanging on our legs pulling us to the undercurrent and adding more dead weight each year. The OVC might be rated below the HL but they do have teams that not only get to the Dance but win a few game while they are there. Except for Butler, it has been a long time since HL teams have won a game let alone 2 or 3. The winner of the HL is expected to lose.


Butler and Xavier put money behind their concerted efforts to move up and out of the HL into a better conference before they moved. The reason we are not in a better conference is that from 1979 to just recently, our school decided to prioritize other things and invested only minimal capital into athletics above and beyond what donors gave with specific instructions. We cannot just call up the A-10, say we want in and expect a response, "How fast can you join us?" If we want to move to a better conference, then we have to prove that we have value today and in the next decade. We control our own way to success. It starts by becoming a factor in what you call our "crap league." In today's world of college basketball, that requires that money be invested. That enables better facilities for players. In turn, those facilities attract more of the better players. Better results plus intelligent marketing will start to put more butts in the seats at Calihan. It won't happen overnight. But we can expect a noticeable improvement over the next 2-3 years if we all pull together and do what we can. That will mean different things for different people. For some, it will mean attending more home games. For others, it will mean increasing their contributions and earmarking them for men's BB. For a few, it could mean making significant financial donations that, in turn, attract other partners and corporate interest.

The time for continually bitching about our situation is over. It's time to act and support the university when it announces a specific program to upgrade men's BB and other sports teams.


As they say up here in Da Up, Ya Shure!
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:33 pm

That's OK. There will be some leaders who will step up and risk failure to make the program better when the school announces later this year its program to take the men's BB flagship program to a higher competitive level. Down in the bayou, they say, "Youpe can do it!!!" ;)
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby R.B.J1 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:15 pm

Coach Davis stated that he wanted UofD to be the "Gonzaga" of the midwest, I dont know if that is an attainable goaI, but its worth a shot. Also, I think we should do everything possible to dominate the Horizon League before consider anything else.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby titanmac » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:17 am

of course you do! sorry i don't have the patience for this discussion anymore. same old debate same old people debating. not a new idea in the bunch. meanwhile the league and the program continue to slide slowly off the cliff. all fiddler's. all while rome burns. sad.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby upbasketballfan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:41 am

titanmac wrote:of course you do! sorry i don't have the patience for this discussion anymore. same old debate same old people debating. not a new idea in the bunch. meanwhile the league and the program continue to slide slowly off the cliff. all fiddler's. all while rome burns. sad.


+1
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:06 am

Things are different at this time.

The coaching staff together with the Athletic Department is submitting to the university a specific plan to move the men's BB program up to a consistently higher level of performance. This will require a significant commitment of financial resources. "Better" conferences will need to see this type of commitment before they would even consider us. This effort has a good chance of being approved and announced later this year. The announcement would contain the specific improvements that would be made and the amount of money needed to make each one of them. Already, donors have pledged about $100K for specific improvements that are being made right now. These are more than just cosmetic changes to a locker room.

I would hope that every poster here who has been complaining about nothing being done would support this effort. There are many different ways to show support that are consistent with your own personal or family situations. It could be as simple as buying season tickets again. Or attending more games. Or actually yelling and cheering for the Titans when you attend more games. Or writing a letter of support when the plan is announced. Or buying a Titan Club membership even though the cost is higher than it was 7 years ago. Or making a donation to fund the plan. A greater width and depth of support will attract more big money from alumni, corporations, and other potential partners. More importantly, a better men's BB program will attract more new student applications and help place the entire university on a more sound financial foundation.

We have an opportunity right now to try and succeed. Hopefully, when it is announced formally, you will support it.
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