Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby MooseGuy1 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:41 pm

The Ilitch Family is coated with Teflon.

AHHHH!!! You blasphemous Moose!!!

I would hate like hell if we moved all of our home games to the Pizza Palace. No, I do not want to pay $30 to park, $6 for a bottle of water, or $15 for a crappy fast food pizza. For the sake of argument, let's say this move happened. (It won't, but suspend disbelief for a minute). Would Buddy's even be allowed to sponsor the team with free pizza for a high score win? Not a chance! Ilitch (God rest his soul and terrible toupee) does nothing for free. It's why he was as successful as he was. Granted, some of his downtown investments have breathed new life into downtown, but he's also worked the system for tax breaks. And I really question why he and Gores need another handout from a city with little money to spend. Look at how many poor people live in wretched poverty in this city...and they need an extra 37 mil.? Give me dear old Calihan Hall. I love the place, the atmosphere, and the people. Don't need any more frills. Winning is what will give us success.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Rumpole59 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:11 pm

I'm with Blasphe-Moose at the Hall!
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby ptctitan » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:18 am

I don't think we should play all of our home games at LCA. I think this year's HL tourney depends mostly upon how well we and Oakland do this year and whether one or both of us can finally make it to the semifinals and finals. Even the old MCC tourneys in Indianapolis would draw well when Xavier, Dayton or another near-by team advanced, but did not draw well when schools located farther away advanced. And that's will always be the case wherever the HL plays the tournament.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby NC Titan » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:29 am

TitanVoiceofReason wrote:
Finally, U of D may want to consider playing all of their games at LCA.


Even with shuttles, moving the games off campus will kill any chance of building a following for the Titans among the students. Ten years from now the posters on this board would be bemoaning the fact that there is no student spirit. Keep the games on campus. After all, the Titans are playing for the university, not Little Caesars.
RIP Titan Reggie #DetroitsCollegeTeam #OurTurnOurCity #RememberTheTitans
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby TitanTarHeel » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:08 pm

Calihan can feel empty with our attendance figures, it makes zero sense to play home games at LCA. They need to be special event set ups like the UM/MSU/OU double header. Michigan basketball has a hard time regularly filling Crisler that has a capacity of 12k-13k.

Illitch shouldn't be teflon around town but they are. Between the huge tax subsidies and the many empty lots they own (see behind Fox Theatre a desert of human life thanks to them), plus torn down historic buildings they have more than a few check marks in the Negative column in my book. The pros are they saved the Fox and won a few cups with the Wings. Oh, I also am no fan of Comerica Park. They whiffed mightily in buildign that especially if you ever visit any other ball parks. Give me the White Sox stadium any day over Comerica (and I hate the White Sox).
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby MooseGuy1 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:47 pm

Tar Heel, I totally agree about Comerica Park. It's plastic. The seats are miles from the field and most have no shade or covering. Everything from the stupid carousel and playground to the plasticky (not a word, I know...but I'm on a roll) tigers screams "Cheap!" And "Tacky!" Concessions are for people who can take out a home equity loan. This isn't in any way quantifiable, but the place has zero soul.

And "Mister I" was a capricious owner who couldn't delegate authority to baseball minds. He continuously interfered, demanding that our GM signed favorite players with diminishing returns to huge contracts that we'll be saddled with for ages. At the same time, he got his feelings hurt by Scherzer, tabled the talks, whined to the press, and let him walk. I love baseball but don't see the Ilitch years as anything but failing to achieve the ultimate goal.

For whatever issues we have with our own house at L6, I still would prefer we stay away from most entanglements with Ilitch Holdings.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby upbasketballfan » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:45 am

The last place I am interested in watching a basketball game at is downtown Detroit. I like Calihan Hall. When you get a chance read up on the history of city ord. 7-92. In the country 61% of the funding for stadiums comes from the public and studies have concluded that in all cases the only people who profit in the cities where the new stadiums are built, are the team owners. This stadium is just a transfer of money from our pockets to the Illich bank accounts. Take a look at if the private $ for Comerica has been paid as agreed.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby TitanVoiceofReason » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:24 pm

Our AD must explore the idea of playing our games downtown. If feasible, the benefits are our program will gain are exposure to a larger and younger audience - new market to tap into, perhaps Michigan and MSU will schedule us, improved recruiting (modern arena with all the bells and whistles), for those who don't like driving/parking downtown, we could run shuttle buses from our campus to LCA.

If we decide to stay at Calihan then we will have to sink major dollars into the arena or build a new arena on campus if we are to compete with the Marquettes, Xaviers and Butlers of the mid major world let alone the MSUs and UMs. These are things we have to do to create and maintain a consistently winning program.

Xavier built the Cintas Arena around 2000 for about $46 million. They are currently sinking another $24 million in improvements spread over 7 years. They raised most of their funds from private donations and some from their tv revenue.

Butler raised significant funds to improve their facility several years ago.

The reason why Butler, Xavier, etc. experience continued success from year to year is because they have a complete program. It's not that they have an uncanny knack at hiring good coaches, it is because they provide their coaches with the tools to succeed. Currrently UD relies on the coach to be our program. Our program must be the driving force for our program to be successful not the coach.

We have to start sometime and now is as good as any. The Big East is not a pipe dream but a reality. First we have to improve our program by winning and offering recruits A-1 facilities in order to attract them to our school. Can't be done all at once but we have to start sometime and now is the time. Our AD and the school admin have to plan what needs to be done and get on it.

Moving to LCA will give us access to a brand new arena at a much cheaper cost than improving our current facility or building a new one.The refrain "it won't work" or "not being realistic" is an old bit. That type of thinking is sinking our program. In the 1970's-1990's we had current Big East & A-10 teams both in our conference and on our non-conf schedule. Today we are playing the old Mid-Con teams and Marygrove types.

Our choice, continue on the road to oblivion or pick ourselves up and start playing with the big boys.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Rogobob77 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:46 pm

Even if the University was interested in playing multiple games at the LCA, there will be zero interest from the Olympia Entertainment people. When the Pistons joined the Red Wings as tenets of the downtown arena, the LCA's calendar for the months overlapping the college basketball season became essentially full. Between the dates the two pro teams play, you'll see mostly big-name concerts that will sell out at average ticket prices of $100. In the coming months, LCA will host Kid Rock for six nights, Paul McCartney for two nights, Lady Gaga, the Eagles, Andrea Bocelli, Guns & Roses, Janet Jackson, Jay Z, Kate Perry, etc., plus four days scheduled for Disney on Ice. Capacity at the facility for concerts will be 22,000. How many people would show up at the LCA for Horizon teams like IUPUI or Youngstown St.? Parking in lots around the LCA is going to be $30, do you think people are going to pay that on a regular basis for routine mid-major college basketball games? The University is running at a big deficit and looking to cut costs all over the place, so thoughts of joining the Big East or building a new on-campus arena should be put on hold until at least the end of the Trump Administration.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:20 am

What Rogobob said is all true. I think we'd be lucky to get one LCA game per season. And frankly, unless we play Michigan, it really doesn't work numbers wise. I'm not that hopeful considering that if Michigan does like LCA and wants to play there once a year themselves, they (and Olympia) will probably want to play an oppononent that is a better draw. Michigan could schedule a December game against an ACC team and sell out LCA for high ticket prices. Or, LCA could get involved in an early season tourney and that's their taste of college hoops every year. I doubt this 4 team showcase happens again. Izzo and Beilein bitched about how hard this was to pull off at the announcement press conference. Ultimately, LCA is a business and the idea of us playing all of our games there doesn't make any sense at all. Bob is right. Let's win over the next 7 years and then look into a new conference or new arena on campus.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Rogobob77 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:54 am

Back to the specific topic of the future of the Horizon tournament, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Olympia Entertainment people try to negotiate out of the contract for 2019 and 2020. Concerts will gross well over $2 million a night in ticket sales and there is also significant parking and concession revenues, meaning there are lost millions by hosting Motor City Madness for four days each March. The MCM deal was cut before Olympia brass ever imagined the Pistons would be coming downtown too and filling 50 dates or so. I could see Olympia giving the HL a couple hundred grand to vacate the last two years on the contract, and league officials might be more than willing to take the easy money.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:38 pm

^ Yup. The only thing I'd disagree with is Olympia not imagining landing the Pistons. I think they hoped to get them all along but knew they'd be able to get out of the HL contract easily need be or work with the Pistons a few years. Unless the HL tourney has an insane draw this first year you can forget about any permanent tourney presence at LCA and the last 2 years on the contract are probably in serious jeopardy. I could easily see Indy getting the HL tourney in future years. Which would be better than going back to campus sites IMO.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby MotownTitan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:34 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:I could easily see Indy getting the HL tourney in future years. Which would be better than going back to campus sites IMO.


And you would be wrong again (like your signature).

Nothing easy about it. Indianapolis (along with Chicago)would rather leave the venue open to host the B10 Men or Women's tourneys ever few years than lock in the HL.

1) I see Olympia opting out of contract (without paying HL).
2) Hl going back to campus format.
3) Detroit Mercy not really caring what happens.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Rogobob77 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:13 pm

For a truly neautral site, I think Grand Rapids would be worth exploring. Decent arena near hotels and several brewpubs, centrally located in the Horizon footprint.

Dayton might be an option, host Wright State and nearby Northern Kentucky would provide a nice two-school core fan base.

Unlike Valpo, the Olympia folks won't try and weasel out of a legitimate contractual obligation. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there is language in the existing contract that allows them to opt out of the agreement in the fourth and fifth years if certain attendance thresholds aren't met.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:39 pm

Time will tell. I didn't say Indy would be a permanent city host, I said they'd land it in future years. And I feel very good about those odds considering Indy doesn't need to juggle a hockey team in their stadium and Big10 will not play there every year. HL tourney could become a tourney that pieces together one and two year contracts and HL being based in Indy makes it natural. Truth is you're probably right on points 1 and 2 and you nailed it on point 3.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby TitanVoiceofReason » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:29 pm

Grand Rapids would not be good, they get a lot of major snow storms off the Lake

Rogobob and Tacitus....why are you guys so intent on moving the HL Tourney away from LCA. Have the Ilitches stated they want to do this? The HL should keep it here and if the contract is not renewed or broken then we can address a future site.

Oh yeah, about the UD playing there or whatever, we better be making plans right now to implement doing what it takes to improve Calihan or to build a new arena if we want our program to rise to the heights we all desire. If not, then we better be content with what we have, that is, making a NCAA appearance every decade or two. The path we have been on for the last 35+ years ain't going to get it done. We need direction and leadership to steer us in the right direction. If we don't succeed it without making the necessary financial investment I won't blame the coaches because we are only giving them a cap gun to fight it out at the O.K. Corral.
Last edited by TitanVoiceofReason on Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby Rogobob77 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:10 pm

TitanVoiceofReason wrote:Grand Rapids would not be good, they get a lot of major snow storms off the Lake

Introducing the "There's Snow Place Like Grand Rapids Horizon League Tournament" sponsored by Founders Brewery.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby TitanVoiceofReason » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:14 pm

I've been to Grand Rapids for tournaments during and after snow storms, it isn't much fun.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby StJoeUofD » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:17 pm

I hear there is a great facility in Wapakoneta, OH that would love to host the tournament for 10 or 15 years. It would also give us a leg up in landing Fort Wayne to make sure there were plenty of semi-local fans there for the games. Frankly, I would rather feel blessed for the years, however many there are, of having the tournament in Detroit and not fret about when it will leave.
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Re: Future of HL Tourney in Detroit

Postby TitanVoiceofReason » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:16 pm

StJoeUofD wrote:I hear there is a great facility in Wapakoneta, OH that would love to host the tournament for 10 or 15 years. It would also give us a leg up in landing Fort Wayne to make sure there were plenty of semi-local fans there for the games. Frankly, I would rather feel blessed for the years, however many there are, of having the tournament in Detroit and not fret about when it will leave.


I agree with you StJoeUofD, however, you'll change your mind when the HL move their conference tournament to The St Joe Dome on I-275 between the 6-7 Mile Rd exits in Livonia! I saw that tonight as I was driving home. :D
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