Expanding the athletic program

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Re: Expanding the athletic program

Postby Tacitus651 » Tue May 30, 2017 7:19 pm

Yup, I was just going to make that point, so thanks for finding the right numbers, NC. Also, UDM has a higher percentage of commuter students than Valpo and Butler I am sure.
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Re: Expanding the athletic program

Postby uofdmik2008 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:26 pm

NC Titan wrote:A slight dispute with the numbers of students. Our dental and law students are pretty disconnected from the university. If you count just undergrads, UDM has 2,672 students compared with 3,300 at Valpo and 4,034 at Butler. And while the Detroit area has a larger population than either other metro area, there is a ton more competition with MSU and UM both pretty close by dominating the college football scene.

Anyone have an idea of Wayne State's (22,000 undergrads) college football attendance?


You are absolutely correct, but neither Valpo nor Butler are known for their powerhouse football, they have to compete in the same space in the same state and also have to compete for with other schools in the area such as Purdue, Indiana and Northwestern just to name a few. At no point in my entire post did I say it makes sense at this juncture to add football, it was to point out that peer institutions that are similar in size have football in the Pioneer League and under different financial circumstances it might make sense with an eventual net return since there are no athletic scholarships ie the math that Tacitus doesn't want on here. Wayne State is Division II football that for its highest game last season had an attendance of 4449 and lowest 2129. Valpos best attendance was 2837 and worst was 1400 on a year that they were 4-7 (.364). The point of FCS Div 1 non-schollie is not for us to be Ohio State but for a myriad of other factors outlined in earlier posts, with that said however as my post clearly stated multiple times at this point it is not feasible, nor are other sports. Here is a sample of the numbers that makes D1 non-schollie football intriguing and why our school entertained the idea 10 years ago.

Raw skewed numbers that make it somewhat interesting to look at if we had not had a ton of challenges that we have to overcome such as the endowment and infrastructure:

85 new student athletes X $40,422 tuition= $3,435,870 in tuition, since they are not on any athletic scholarships

Now I know Taci or someone else will say that 92% of our students receive financial aid, well if all those 85 students are 3.0 gpa and have a 24-26 on the ACT, which makes them a pretty smart football team the tuition drops to 22,422 excluding room and board (since we have no dorms available for these students, ergo one of the 100 reasons why this does not make sense) lets re-run those numbers.

85 X 22,422= $1,905,870 These numbers assume an average gpa is 3.0 for the students, no room or board (suspect some students might eat on campus and might need to live on campus if we had available housing) assumes no other revenues from tickets, concessions, alumni donation, marketing and away games at better schools where we would be cannon fodder (I suppose could add up to some sort of number).

I am sure that we would have some numbers to turn out if we able to play the likes of Butler, Valpo or Dayton and it would provide alumni and student engagement. Now what is the cost of Div1 FCS PFL non schollie program? If its anything less than $1,905,870 than we have a net return.

The football program cost Valpo in the Pioneer League $850,000 last year roughly and fluctuates greatly every other year when they travel to Sand Diego from what I was told, that includes travel, salaries, insurance, equipment and so on and if we came in close to that number then there is a net for the school. Now Taci talks about paying professors, support staff, electricity and so on, if you have been on campus our average class size is 11 people per classroom with the average classroom being able to hold 30-50 students. As an example our freshmen enrollment is projected to be up by 50 students for 2018, I guarantee that we would not have to go on a hiring spree to add support staff nor faculty and I doubt that our heating and electrical bill would go up since we have to light it for the 11 students already in that classroom and average classroom more than half empty. I assure you Taci that we have more than enough space in the classroom and that our faculty is not overworked.

The biggest complaint on all of the surveys is student life and activities for undergraduate students, this could add an activity for a few Saturdays a year but would not solve the issue for us, also adds a true homecoming event which could draw a decent crowd at least for that game.

With all of this being said and as intriguing as it would be, I outlined in the other posts why this makes absolutely no sense, we have no infrastructure for current sports to train, where do we put 85 more student athletes, more staff, we don't have a stadium that we could have a home game at. Our dorms are at 100% capacity, so we have no room for the 85 students (if we did that would be additional revenue). We do not have success in current sports, including our main revenue generator to have a distraction of adding anything at this point. We do not have a brand in athletics (school is working on it, I am sure Taci and others can tell us how terrible the roll out has been, but trying to create a brand) The endowment as clearly pointed out is by far a greater indicator, our endowment is a quarter of those schools far worse than the number difference in undergraduate enrollment. The fact that Calihan needs updates, we need lights for Softball and Titan Field (along with numerous other things for current sports), we need a training facility so that some of our student athletes do not have to drive long distances from campus just to practice. The school also needs to grow the endowment fund which is a far greater priority to fund scholarships and research. We need to grow undergraduate enrollment, which although will see a substantial bump this upcoming year is way off from where it should be. So football absolutely makes no sense right now or in the near future, however its not to say that we cannot have a positive conversation about the pros and the cons. If most of those issues above were resolved by the school and athletic department, then it makes for an interesting conversation. I would love to be in the position of Valpo or Butler, don't see any reason that we cannot shoot to move in that direction at least, I am not arguing for us to compete for a national championship in the Big 10, I want us to compete in the Horizon and win. Since we have to shoot for something, lets shoot for schools similar to us that have competed in our league recently and have dominated our league in the primary sports over the last decade, using that success to move on to greener pastures. If we have continued success in Men's Basketball that can be a springboard to many things, eventually to a real conversation about this.

I am sure the above numbers can be nitpicked in one direction or another but no way can you do the math in which it makes sense.
I agree with Taci and others that it would be a disaster at this point with the upfront costs to solve other issues. Absolutely unequivocally no football at this time or in the near future!
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Re: Expanding the athletic program

Postby titanmac » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:49 am

i think we should add football.
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Re: Expanding the athletic program

Postby uofdmik2008 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:08 am

titanmac wrote:i think we should add football.


Great, if you can help the school raise $50-60 million to address those issues lets have at it!
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Re: Expanding the athletic program

Postby Rogobob77 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:04 pm

Rogobob77 wrote:When the University built the fitness center a few years ago, they set aside adjacent land for a possible natatorium someday. Don't think adding NCAA swimming will happen anytime soon, but I guess that was or perhaps still is the long term vision.

If you've been on campus recently, you may have noticed that work on a new paved parking lot adjacent (north) of the fitness center is just about complete. Whatever long-range plans there may have been to construct a natatorium for recreational or intercollegiate competition purposes at that location have apparently completely evaporated.
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