Starting Line UP

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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby NC Titan » Fri May 26, 2017 11:18 am

R.B.J1 wrote:I guess I can make my prediction, due to the fact that I don't think there are any recruits still available that can make a significant impact. This prediction is being made without Hogan being on the roster.

C-Blackshear
F-Prince
F-Chatman
G-Allen
G-McFolley

Top Reserves
G-Jackson
F-Ballantyne
C-Eichler

Long might be able to sneak in there and get a few minutes. I think we can win 16 games.


If someone (Blackshear or Jones) can step up at center, I expect 20 wins. Especially if Prince and Chatman are all that's advertised.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby titanmike » Fri May 26, 2017 11:41 am

Hopefully we make a push
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby Commissioner » Fri May 26, 2017 12:12 pm

NC Titan wrote:
R.B.J1 wrote:I guess I can make my prediction, due to the fact that I don't think there are any recruits still available that can make a significant impact. This prediction is being made without Hogan being on the roster.

C-Blackshear
F-Prince
F-Chatman
G-Allen
G-McFolley

Top Reserves
G-Jackson
F-Ballantyne
C-Eichler

Long might be able to sneak in there and get a few minutes. I think we can win 16 games.


If someone (Blackshear or Jones) can step up at center, I expect 20 wins. Especially if Prince and Chatman are all that's advertised.

I don't see it without Hogan, even if both Blackshear and Jones step up.

Chatman replaces Jenkins.
Prince replaces Hogan.
The other key key players are all the same except for Jackson and Ballantyne, who are freshmen, and Jones, who hasn't played in two years and wasn't an overwhelming force before that.

Chatman may be better than Jenkins--who was pretty good, even in a below-expectations senior year--but he may not be. Prince may be better than Hogan, who was very good, but he may not be. He's a bit different player, and while I think he'll be very good, too, I don't think he'll be the low post presence Jalethal was. More importantly, while they could be better than the guys they replace, neither is a clear upgrade based on past performance.

If Jackson can step right in and run the point effectively, we could be a very dangerous team with Allen, McFolley, and Jackson raining threes. But that is an awfully small three-guard lineup, and if only two are on the floor at once, I'm not sure we're a whole lot better than last year, especially if JJJ is not ready to run the point 20 minutes a game. And live by the three, die by the three. We'll be like a lot of Youngstown State teams of recent years. :cry:

I think there are just way too many "ifs" to think we'll get a 12 game improvement. Twelve game improvements simply are very rare in college ball. In fact, only once in history (Ray McCallum's second year) have the Titans improved by even 10 wins in a season. Oakland has never improved by 10 wins in a season since joining D-I. Green Bay last did it in 1994. Milwaukee has done it once in 27 years of DI ball, in 2014. UIC has done it once in 36 years of DI ball. Same for YSU. Cleveland State has done it twice in 45 years. Wright State is our shining beacon--they've done it 3 times in the last 12 years. But of all our conference mates, only Milwaukee and Green Bay have ever improved by 12 or more wins in a season.

It is true that it is easier now than in the days of a 27 game regular season and, in most cases, no conference tournaments. I'm not saying it can't happen. But the smart money is always against it, and I just don't see any strong reason to bet against the smart money here, much as I would like to. Realistically, an 7 to 9 win improvement would be real good, and set us up--hopefully, with another good recruiting year--for another 6-8 win improvement that would have us contending for the title in 2019.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby Motor City Sam » Fri May 26, 2017 2:22 pm

That's a sobering analysis, Commish, and probably very accurate.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby NC Titan » Fri May 26, 2017 4:00 pm

That's why I have so many "if's" in my post.

Look at it this way: Tigers are stinking up the joint, Wings and Pistons are not in the playoffs, Lions are ... well ... the Lions. I have to have something to be optimistic about.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby Commissioner » Sat May 27, 2017 8:22 am

titanmike wrote:
R.B.J1 wrote:I guess I can make my prediction, due to the fact that I don't think there are any recruits still available that can make a significant impact. This prediction is being made without Hogan being on the roster.

C-Blackshear
F-Prince
F-Chatman
G-Allen
G-McFolley

Top Reserves
G-Jackson
F-Ballantyne
C-Eichler

Long might be able to sneak in there and get a few minutes. I think we can win 16 games.


http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketb ... -available

I would go after Akoy Agau

Looks like that ain't happenin'. https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status ... 6827866112
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby StJoeUofD » Sat May 27, 2017 1:23 pm

I don't know about the starting lineup at this point, but if I were making a list of the 10 most important things that need to be accomplished in 2017-2018, in the top 5 would be getting my 63.5% 3 point shooter a lot more than 11 shots in a season. Even if he just started the 1st and 2nd half launching 5 shots outside the arc, he would certainly force the opponent's game plan to change. My Daddy used to say about fishing -- if you find a spot where you throw the line out of the boat and you get a fish right away, don't move, don't talk, don't think, just keep throwing the line out until you don't catch any fish. If you find someone that can shoot 60%+ from downtown, you keep giving him the ball until either he can't make them any more or the opponent decides that he deserves two TALL defenders, then you let the rest of the team have fun playing 4 on 3.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby upbasketballfan » Sun May 28, 2017 9:20 am

I expect Eichler to contribute a lot this year. I felt there were times last year where he was our best option at pivot. I was disappointed he did not get more playing time last year. I always look at how the entire team plays when a substitution is made and I felt we usually got better when Eichler was on the floor. He seemed to read the kick out the best and looked a lot more comfortable at the top.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby MotownTitan » Sun May 28, 2017 10:30 pm

StJoeUofD wrote:I don't know about the starting lineup at this point, but if I were making a list of the 10 most important things that need to be accomplished in 2017-2018, in the top 5 would be getting my 63.5% 3 point shooter a lot more than 11 shots in a season. Even if he just started the 1st and 2nd half launching 5 shots outside the arc, he would certainly force the opponent's game plan to change. My Daddy used to say about fishing -- if you find a spot where you throw the line out of the boat and you get a fish right away, don't move, don't talk, don't think, just keep throwing the line out until you don't catch any fish. If you find someone that can shoot 60%+ from downtown, you keep giving him the ball until either he can't make them any more or the opponent decides that he deserves two TALL defenders, then you let the rest of the team have fun playing 4 on 3.


If your 63.5% three point shooter starts taking more than 11 shots, the odds are extremely high that % will drop by at least over 20%.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby MotownTitan » Sun May 28, 2017 10:33 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:I expect Eichler to contribute a lot this year. I felt there were times last year where he was our best option at pivot. I was disappointed he did not get more playing time last year. I always look at how the entire team plays when a substitution is made and I felt we usually got better when Eichler was on the floor. He seemed to read the kick out the best and looked a lot more comfortable at the top.


I agree. But I thought someone posted on here recently that he was injured last year. If healthy, he can be a big contribution on both sides.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby StJoeUofD » Mon May 29, 2017 10:09 am

Motown - that is obvious, however, 43.5% would still make him the 3rd best 3 point shooter on the team. Only Allen and Robinson shot better than that last year. Play the stats!
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby Commissioner » Mon May 29, 2017 2:08 pm

StJoeUofD wrote:Motown - that is obvious, however, 43.5% would still make him the 3rd best 3 point shooter on the team. Only Allen and Robinson shot better than that last year. Play the stats!

There are no D-I stats on Eichler with any meaning. 11 shots means nothing more than what we knew before he played last year--he can make threes. Whether it's 30% or 35% or 43% or 63% we don't know, and last year's 11 shots shed no real light on it. So it's not really playing "the stats."

That said, I agree with St. Joe. It would playing what has worked, albeit tried just a very few times. A 7 footer who can make even 35% of his threes is a real match-up problem for defenses, and for a small team like Detroit with no low post presence, may help drag big guys out from underneath, allowing McFolley and Prince to drive (which is basically what Prince does best). Joe's big point is right--the guy is making the shots, so keep running plays for him to shoot 3s until he starts missing. I think people in all things, including hoops coaches, are too quick to stop doing what's working. They think, "oh, the other guy will get wise" or "oh, the odds are bound to even up." Doesn't matter. Make the other guy figure out a way to stop it. So I hope we'll use Eichler that way more this year, at least unless and until he proves he's not up to it.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby StJoeUofD » Mon May 29, 2017 6:12 pm

As always Commissioner, you made my point much more eloquently than I did. Thank you.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby uofdfan1983 » Mon May 29, 2017 8:40 pm

11 shots does mean nothing. And his shooting percentage means nothing either. He shoots them well in practice also, so it is an element of his game. But right now Eichler isn't a Div I player. He is just learning the game. By the end of the year he was beginning to actually put his hands up when a rebound came down in his neighborhood. That's where he was last year -- an extreme novice player. He gets sucked all over the place on defense, he has no inside game....he's just raw. Having said that, if he works extremely hard, he has a chance to be a player. Let's hope he's a quick learner of the mental part of the game and becomes more physical underneath. Right now, about the only thing he uses his height for is to get off a 3 pt shot. He needs to learn to be tall all game long.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby StJoeUofD » Tue May 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Those sound like all the complaints I heard about Andrea Bargnani. Everyone tried to make him into an interior player, but he was meant to be a perimeter threat. Pushing square pegs into round holes is normally not a productive approach. I still say, let him launch them from outside until he proves he can't do it.

The European players over here all learn to face the basket and shoot from outside. It is the way they first learn to play. Trying to make a European into an American post up player has a low probability of success.

We all watched Alec Brown from Green Bay launch threes over our guys a few years ago. He never was and never will be a traditional 7 footer. He did, however, cause match up fits for all the Horizon League teams. That is why he is playing over here in Spain. The European game wants 7 footers who can disrupt a game from the outside. The American game, not so much.

I don't know if Eichler can be as good of a shooter as Brown or Bargnani, but I would love it if he had the chance to prove that he can be source of 10+ points per game and cause our opponents to try alternative defenses to try to stop him.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby uofdmik2008 » Tue May 30, 2017 1:27 pm

StJoeUofD wrote:Those sound like all the complaints I heard about Andrea Bargnani. Everyone tried to make him into an interior player, but he was meant to be a perimeter threat. Pushing square pegs into round holes is normally not a productive approach. I still say, let him launch them from outside until he proves he can't do it.

The European players over here all learn to face the basket and shoot from outside. It is the way they first learn to play. Trying to make a European into an American post up player has a low probability of success.

We all watched Alec Brown from Green Bay launch threes over our guys a few years ago. He never was and never will be a traditional 7 footer. He did, however, cause match up fits for all the Horizon League teams. That is why he is playing over here in Spain. The European game wants 7 footers who can disrupt a game from the outside. The American game, not so much.

I don't know if Eichler can be as good of a shooter as Brown or Bargnani, but I would love it if he had the chance to prove that he can be source of 10+ points per game and cause our opponents to try alternative defenses to try to stop him.


I agree that it makes more sense to take advantage of a players skills and minimize their weaknesses. It would probably more natural for Eichler to launch bombs from 3 than play with his back to the board. If he stretches the D and opens up lanes for other players, plus pulls a big from the paint this could be a viable option, if he makes those 3s. The data suggests he could, so we should let him shoot until he either can't make them or he is double teamed in that case he should be passing it off to an open player for an easy bucket. We will see how the coaching staff elects to use him.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby titandave » Tue May 30, 2017 4:04 pm

uofdfan1983 wrote:11 shots does mean nothing. And his shooting percentage means nothing either. He shoots them well in practice also, so it is an element of his game. But right now Eichler isn't a Div I player. He is just learning the game. By the end of the year he was beginning to actually put his hands up when a rebound came down in his neighborhood. That's where he was last year -- an extreme novice player. He gets sucked all over the place on defense, he has no inside game....he's just raw. Having said that, if he works extremely hard, he has a chance to be a player. Let's hope he's a quick learner of the mental part of the game and becomes more physical underneath. Right now, about the only thing he uses his height for is to get off a 3 pt shot. He needs to learn to be tall all game long.

Agree with your point, last season, Eichler was an extreme novice player. With regards to the upcoming season, I have him projected as a role player. I'll be surprised if he's developed to the point where he's included in an 8-man rotation.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby uofdmik2008 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:30 pm

titandave wrote:
uofdfan1983 wrote:11 shots does mean nothing. And his shooting percentage means nothing either. He shoots them well in practice also, so it is an element of his game. But right now Eichler isn't a Div I player. He is just learning the game. By the end of the year he was beginning to actually put his hands up when a rebound came down in his neighborhood. That's where he was last year -- an extreme novice player. He gets sucked all over the place on defense, he has no inside game....he's just raw. Having said that, if he works extremely hard, he has a chance to be a player. Let's hope he's a quick learner of the mental part of the game and becomes more physical underneath. Right now, about the only thing he uses his height for is to get off a 3 pt shot. He needs to learn to be tall all game long.

Agree with your point, last season, Eichler was an extreme novice player. With regards to the upcoming season, I have him projected as a role player. I'll be surprised if he's developed to the point where he's included in an 8-man rotation.


That may in fact be true, but it doesn't mean that when he is on the court that we cannot run a few plays to his strengths, I cant imagine it hurting the team if he is making the 3s and he is on the court anyways?
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby ptctitan » Wed May 31, 2017 7:06 am

Coach Alexander has always pointed to next year (2018-19) for Malik Eichler. So, he may be in the rotation this year, but with sporadic contributions. At least, that is my pre-season expectation for him.
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Re: Starting Line UP

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:05 pm

There were a lot of times last year where Eichler was on the floor and made the team better. We didn't lose ground we gained on our opponent. I thought Eichler was
better than Blacksheer last year.
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