Major scandal rocks college basketball

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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby Commissioner » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:34 pm

dtowntitan wrote:Nike Grassroots has just been raided.

I have heard that Louisville has removed Bowen from the team as well.

I'm sure Kampe is on the phone. Expect to see Tugs at the McRena in 2019.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby kirky313 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:13 pm

Technically as long as Tugs didn't accept the money. he didn't violate NCAA rules.

Comish, Can I get a lawyers ruling?
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby ptctitan » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:23 pm

When it rains, it pours. The price of Pitino's personal information stolen from Equifax has now declined by 95% on the dark web.

On a serious note, does anyone have concerns about the merits of the criminal charges brought here? Should a conspiracy to violate the ethics rules of the NCAA become a crime merely because the federal government gives a university more than $10,000 per year? Do we really want the federal government regulating collegiate sports?

From today's Wall Street Journal,

Probe Into NCAA Basketball Relies on Unusual Legal Theories

By Nicole Hong

The government’s sprawling investigation into bribery in top-tier college basketball programs has prompted some in the sports and legal communities to question whether the alleged activity violates federal law.

Federal prosecutors on Tuesday unsealed charges against 10 defendants, including four assistant college-basketball coaches.

In one alleged scheme, prosecutors accused the coaches of taking cash bribes from financial advisers, business managers and others, and of facilitating bribes directly to student-athletes. In exchange, the coaches agreed to pressure student-athletes under their control to retain the services of these advisers once the athletes entered the National Basketball Association.

In a second and related scheme, a top Adidas AG executive allegedly worked in connection with the advisers in the first scheme to funnel bribes to high-school players and their families to induce them to attend universities sponsored by Adidas, and to choose Adidas as their sponsor when they turned pro.

The investigation is unusual because while the alleged misconduct violates National Collegiate Athletic Association rules, some legal experts say it may not have necessarily broken federal law.

NCAA bylaws state that any financial assistance to student-athletes, other than from their legal guardians or from the university, is prohibited without express authorization from the NCAA. Student athletes are also prohibited from accepting benefits, including money, from outside sources like financial advisers. A student-athlete is ineligible to participate in Division I sports if he or she violates these rules.

Gabe Feldman, a sports law professor at Tulane University Law School, said it was fair to question whether prosecutors were overreaching in trying “to turn what might be an NCAA violation into a criminal violation.”

“The conduct itself doesn’t necessarily appear to violate any laws, standing on their own,” he said. “But it’s the combination of factors that appear to have convinced the government to bring this case.”

Prosecutors in the criminal complaints are primarily alleging violations of federal bribery and fraud laws. The charges are likely to face challenges in court, legal experts say.

All four coaches were charged with honest-services fraud conspiracy. The government accuses the coaches of depriving the universities of their “honest services” as university employees by soliciting and receiving bribes.

Honest-services fraud is a crime under the federal wire-fraud statute, a broad law that is widely used by prosecutors to charge virtually any type of fraud that involves an email or phone call. Every defendant in this case was also charged with wire-fraud conspiracy.

The law governing honest-services fraud is both controversial and in flux, lawyers said. The definition of what it means to deprive an employer of honest services is vague, and a 2010 Supreme Court ruling narrowed the definition of honest-services fraud to cover only certain types of bribery and kickback schemes. The statute has often been used to charge corrupt politicians.


“I’m not aware of any case where federal prosecutors have used honest-services fraud to say the programs that were allegedly defrauded were college sports organizations,” said Daniel Silver, a former federal prosecutor in Brooklyn who is now a partner at Clifford Chance LLP.

The government says the universities were the victims of the alleged schemes. Because the universities were unaware of the alleged bribes, they gave financial aid to student athletes who were actually in violation of NCAA rules and therefore ineligible for scholarships. This, in turn, defrauded the universities because it hurt their “decision-making about the distribution of its limited athletic scholarships,” the criminal complaint said.

But the government may have a hard time showing how schools like Auburn University or University of Louisville suffered losses as a result of the scheme, some lawyers said.

“If Louisville’s a victim, what did they lose out on?” asked Bradley Henry, a criminal defense attorney in New York.

Lawyers said the defense may also bring challenges to the bribery charges. Federal law bans the bribery of organizations that receive money from the federal government. In their criminal complaints, prosecutors said the public universities receive federal funding, which means bribery of the coaches, who are employees of the university, is also prohibited. The defense, however, could argue that coaches shouldn’t be treated like federal government employees, according to one defense lawyer.

As well, legal experts say that the government, to prove bribery, may have to show a quid pro quo occurred between the payers of the bribe and the coaches. In the wake of recent shifts in bribery and public-corruption law, defense lawyers could argue that coaches steering players toward certain money managers may not be enough of an official action on the coaches’ part to warrant federal bribery charges.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby cjmcgow35 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:17 am

ptctitan wrote:When it rains, it pours. The price of Pitino's personal information stolen from Equifax has now declined by 95% on the dark web.

On a serious note, does anyone have concerns about the merits of the criminal charges brought here? Should a conspiracy to violate the ethics rules of the NCAA become a crime merely because the federal government gives a university more than $10,000 per year? Do we really want the federal government regulating collegiate sports?


Well since the NCAA has turned a blind eye to this for years (because everyone knew this type of crap went on), I'm ok with it because someone needs to do something about it. The NCAA has been a joke on how they deal with disciplining schools for violations and now it's coming to kick them in the butt, and I'm sure they're crapping themselves right now. The NCAA took away eligibility from a kicker from Central Florida this summer because he made money from his Youtube channel!! But the weasel Pitino barely got a slap on the wrist from the NCAA for all the crap that went on underneath him. If the NCAA did their job's correctly, this could have all been avoided, but greed has a way of changing people.

Even if it's difficult to possibly charge the schools, at least this can get the ball rolling in actually cleaning up college sports and now the NCAA may actually do their jobs.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby dennycrane » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:25 am

The IU President who fired Bobby Knight, pct, later became NCAA President and he had real convictions in performing that job. Myles Brand was his name, I believe, and unfortunately, he was felled by cancer at age 67. The current occupant, Emmert, believes the sky is blue but, as an administrator, doesn't know enough to come in out of the rain. So, I would ask, if a weak administrator is at the helm, who would you like to see regulate college athletics? I think the Feds stepping in may be a good thing to rein in some of the bad behavior that the P5 schools are exhibiting and I doubt that their legal footing is unsound. As the case develops, we'll see.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby ptctitan » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:02 am

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I agree that the NCAA has been unable to enforce its rules - and that it appears unwilling to enforce them fully against the Power 5 schools; e.g. North Carolina. I just get concerned whenever governments get involved. Especially as it concerns the independence of private schools.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby Commissioner » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:14 am

The idea that "somebody has to do something" causes a lot of problems. Restraints on government power generally and federal power in particular serve valuable purposes. The "honest services" law that the Feds seem to be using has been a source of considerable abuse and its expansion is not to be welcomed.

It is hard to see much interest for the federal government here. It's at moments like this, when emotionally you're glad to see the result, that you should most ask if the means sure appropriate, recognizing that they'll be used again, in other circumstances where the result won't be so appealing.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby 77-85Titan » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:33 pm

Interesting quote from Dick Vitale:
"I am upset, frustrated and disgusted to hear all what I’m hearing now. It’s a shame. It’s sleazy. It’s no good. It’s ugly, and it really just breaks my heart."

I personally witnessed 2 different $100 handshakes with U-D players while Vitale coached and he was in the same room when it happened. Just saying.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby JimmyChitwood » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:16 pm

77-85Titan wrote:Interesting quote from Dick Vitale:
"I am upset, frustrated and disgusted to hear all what I’m hearing now. It’s a shame. It’s sleazy. It’s no good. It’s ugly, and it really just breaks my heart."

I personally witnessed 2 different $100 handshakes with U-D players while Vitale coached and he was in the same room when it happened. Just saying.

Maybe the "now" is the key word. :roll: I, too, am aware of similar interactions at UofD around that same time - with players already there, not recruits. I recall one player asking because he wanting to take his girlfriend out for pizza, but he had no $. He went on that date. And my brother, who went to UofM in mid/late 80s, saw lots lower income athletes with nice cars, apartments, and summer jobs they did not go to but got paid well for. Its been around along time and I don't see things changing that much in the future.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby dennycrane » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:51 pm

Poor Dick. I think if we reviewed his broadcasts over the years, we'd find his heart has been broken quite a bit. How much can one guy take???
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby MooseGuy1 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:14 pm

Commissioner wrote:The idea that "somebody has to do something" causes a lot of problems. Restraints on government power generally and federal power in particular serve valuable purposes. The "honest services" law that the Feds seem to be using has been a source of considerable abuse and its expansion is not to be welcomed.

It is hard to see much interest for the federal government here. It's at moments like this, when emotionally you're glad to see the result, that you should most ask if the means sure appropriate, recognizing that they'll be used again, in other circumstances where the result won't be so appealing.


This, sir, is the post of the year.

Unintended consequences or maybe intentional power grabs. I don't really know.

In way too many ways the Feds have overstepped their Constitutional bounds in the name of safety, or to please certain groups, or to fight terror, or any number of things. Some things were perhaps necessary but more often than not it just left a bigger and more encroaching national power base. In this situation, as much as I think those involved are vile self-serving people (see the Other White Boy Rick...yuck!), it would seem to me that the NCAA should handle it in house. If certain parties feel that they've been harmed in a way that the NCAA doesn't adequately address, then they have the option of taking their cases to court.

I know I didn't state this well but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying. Hey, Commish, you ever think about getting involved in the law or politics? ;)
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby titanmike » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Could Oakland be thinking about a replacement for Tony Jones? Auburn got a subpoena last night.
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby Commissioner » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:29 pm

titanmike wrote:Could Oakland be thinking about a replacement for Tony Jones? Auburn got a subpoena last night.

Sheez. A guy follows Bruce Pearl from Milwaukee to Tennessee to Auburn, gets a little slap on the wrist from the NCAA for lying about certain recruiting at Tennessee, and then is on the staff at Auburn when a huge scandal begins, leading to one of the other assistant coaches being arrested, and everybody starts whispering. What is this, the Inquisition? http://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle ... 741617001/
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Re: Major scandal rocks college basketball

Postby titanmike » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:36 pm

:lol: :lol:
Commissioner wrote:
titanmike wrote:Could Oakland be thinking about a replacement for Tony Jones? Auburn got a subpoena last night.

Sheez. A guy follows Bruce Pearl from Milwaukee to Tennessee to Auburn, gets a little slap on the wrist from the NCAA for lying about certain recruiting at Tennessee, and then is on the staff at Auburn when a huge scandal begins, leading to one of the other assistant coaches being arrested, and everybody starts whispering. What is this, the Inquisition? http://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle ... 741617001/
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