Bacari suspended

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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:56 pm

Titans96 wrote:BA never wanted JJ. Ray never wanted JJ. The only one that wanted JJ was Vowels.

Now we are seeing why the two coaches didn’t want JJ, and why the other prospective coaches would never come here if JJ was part of the package, because JJ is out to get the top job and screw his head coach, even screw his teammate.

JJ took down a high school program, and now he will take down a college program.

I wouldn’t be surprised is Chatman leaves, with his father. I wouldn’t be surprised if Allen leaves. And I’m pretty sure the new recruits won’t come to this crazy show if JJ is the ring leader.

We are all witnessing the fall of the Titans.


Stop your complaining long enough to figure out who has recruited these guys. JJ, and JJ was the one who held Allen when Ray left, not BA. JJ recruited McFolley,Blacksheer,kept Hogan,JJ Jr.,Balantyne and the two new recruits. Chatman brought in his son and Prince. I have to think that if JJ is not the coach we will lose a few players.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:14 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
Titans96 wrote:BA never wanted JJ. Ray never wanted JJ. The only one that wanted JJ was Vowels.

Now we are seeing why the two coaches didn’t want JJ, and why the other prospective coaches would never come here if JJ was part of the package, because JJ is out to get the top job and screw his head coach, even screw his teammate.

JJ took down a high school program, and now he will take down a college program.

I wouldn’t be surprised is Chatman leaves, with his father. I wouldn’t be surprised if Allen leaves. And I’m pretty sure the new recruits won’t come to this crazy show if JJ is the ring leader.

We are all witnessing the fall of the Titans.


Stop your complaining long enough to figure out who has recruited these guys. JJ, and JJ was the one who held Allen when Ray left, not BA. JJ recruited McFolley,Blacksheer,kept Hogan,JJ Jr.,Balantyne and the two new recruits. Chatman brought in his son and Prince. I have to think that if JJ is not the coach we will lose a few players.


Who cares if we lose a few players? Seriously? The administration better not think like that. I hope we have an end goal of developing a winning program. At no point should the prospect of losing Blackshear or a new 2-star recruit enter the decision making process.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Titans96 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:24 pm

UP, get a grip. Are you really buying into JJ’s BS?

Bacari brought in Chatman. Not JJ.
Ray brought in Hogan and Allen. Not JJ.

Yes, JJ brought in McFolley, Blackshear, Jones, Bakantyne, Long, Eichler and JJJr. Awesome. Too bad JJ couldn’t even win when coaching McFolley, Blackshear, Jones and JJJr in Class C. Do you think they will all of a sudden win in D1 college?

Let us know when you stop drinking the JJ go-go juice.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:59 pm

I don't see the point in trashing JJ. Let him interim for this season and at least see what he can do.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:12 am

Tacitus651 wrote:I don't see the point in trashing JJ. Let him interim for this season and at least see what he can do.

Hear! Hear!
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:58 am

Tacitus651 wrote:I don't see the point in trashing JJ. Let him interim for this season and at least see what he can do.


Good point. In fact, I'll admit that if JJ can lead us to regular season and conference titles this season, I'll endorse him for the head coach position.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:18 am

udballer wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:I don't see the point in trashing JJ. Let him interim for this season and at least see what he can do.


Good point. In fact, I'll admit that if JJ can lead us to regular season and conference titles this season, I'll endorse him for the head coach position.

Just a regular season title wouldn't do it for you, eh?

Man, you guys are tough.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Tacitus651 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:05 am

I think if JJ earns a top 3 finish in HL regular season he will earn the job in most eyes. 4th or 5th is a judgment call for Vowels and anything less he clears the entire staff.

I think the HL tourney is less important. A good performance would help JJ more than a poor performance would hurt him. Stay tuned!
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby JimmyChitwood » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:51 am

Since this team has so many JJ guys please tell me we don't have to wait, like, 3 years to judge JJ, after he can "get his kids in here, under his philosophy" like we were doing with BA.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby uofdmik2008 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:28 am

Commissioner wrote:
udballer wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:I don't see the point in trashing JJ. Let him interim for this season and at least see what he can do.


Good point. In fact, I'll admit that if JJ can lead us to regular season and conference titles this season, I'll endorse him for the head coach position.

Just a regular season title wouldn't do it for you, eh?

Man, you guys are tough.


I think there is no point in trashing anybody at this point, BA, JJ or Vowels because we truly have no true understanding of what is going on, there are a ton of rumors and conjecture, but that is all that is rumors and conjecture. Until we know anything, no point in trashing anyone. There have been at least 3 people on this board that have stated that they are quitting supporting this team if xyz happens, everyone needs to chill out! The AD is going to do what is best for the student athletes, the university and the department, there is no reason to believe otherwise.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:05 am

I stand by my statements. If stating facts regarding a coach's record equates to "trashing" him, then that suggests that said coach hasn't proven enough to lead our program... in my opinion.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby titanmac » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:19 am

le roi est mort. vice le roi.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby uofdmik2008 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:22 am

titanmac wrote:le roi est mort. vice le roi.


Viva La Revolucion! Viva la Univirsidad Detroit!
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:49 am

udballer wrote:I stand by my statements. If stating facts regarding a coach's record equates to "trashing" him, then that suggests that said coach hasn't proven enough to lead our program... in my opinion.


udballer wrote:Nothing like being named head coach of a D1 university based on little more than the current head coach resigning. How anyone thinks that is a good move amazes me. Resume:

Fired from Class C high school for "recruiting" violations while still not winning anything? Check.

Assistant for a lame duck coach during a losing season? Check.

Assistant for a brand new coach during a historically bad season? Check.

Oh well, at least he led them to a road win against a mediocre Saint Louis team. That must be what it takes to get this job. Sad!

Umm...

Fired from Class C high school for "recruiting" violations while still not winning anything? Check.
Mt. Clemens went 21-2 in JJ's first year and won the conference and district championship. They lost in the regional final to the eventual state champion. They went 24-2 in his second year, won the conference, district, and regional championship, and lost in the state quarterfinals to the eventual state champion (that team was led by Josh Jackson, later the #4 pick in the NBA draft). One of his two regular-season losses was to eventual Class A State Champ Muskegon, with Deyonte Davis. I'd say that was a pretty good record. If the Titans went 45-4 and won two Horizon League championships, then lost in the NCAA to the eventual champs each year, would you say, they "haven't won anything"? Though allegations were made that Jackson improperly recruited players, Jackson was not dismissed for improperly recruiting players and was never found to have done so.

Assistant for a lame duck coach during a losing season? Check.
Actually, the Titans had a winning record in JJ's first season on the bench, coming after two losing seasons. And the head coach wasn't a lame duck during the season--he had another year on his contract that eventually necessitated a buy-out, he wasn't terminated until after the season, and the decision to terminate was not made until after the season.

Assistant for a brand new coach during a historically bad season? Check.
Got me!

That's a short resume, to be sure, but if you're standing by your "facts," then you'd better get some new facts that you can stand by without being embarrassed. I can see where one might not think JJ's resume is enough, but let's at least present it honestly.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby uofdmik2008 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:57 am

udballer wrote:I stand by my statements. If stating facts regarding a coach's record equates to "trashing" him, then that suggests that said coach hasn't proven enough to lead our program... in my opinion.


My reference was to taci's comment about trashing, which I support his comment, I don't think your numbers made it into my comment at all. But since you mention data and records as fact, now isn't it a fact that JJ as interim head coach at this point is 4-2 this season and is 2-2 vs D1, better than BA and actually better than Ray as a percentage, if you look at solely the first year of coaches, JJ has one of the best winning percentages. It's beautiful to skew statistics however you want to support your opinion, you can cherry pick whatever numbers you want and leave out other information. Based on the fact that JJ has 66% winning percentage thus far, he is one of the winningest coaches by percentage in Men's Basketball? I would like to nominate him to the University of Detroit Mercy Hall of Fame and maybe we can rename Calihan Hall in honor of him?(sarcasm, just in case someone read this as anything else)

I don't think there is enough data, facts to conclude whether BA or JJ would make good head coaches at this time, most statisticians would agree with me that there is insufficient data in the year and a half to pass judgment on BA or the 6 games on JJ and we don't truly know what happened for BA to get suspended if in fact he is suspended. As commish noted before plenty of coaches started out well in first couple of seasons and then petered out and others started out poorly only to become legends at their schools a few years in(where does Pitino fall under). What I expect is that Vowels who is the AD to make sure that he removes BA if BA's actions warrant it, considering we are a third of the way into a season and school year, if BA is removed than probably for the sake of the student-athletes JJ is there to help them finish out the season based solely on the appearance that they at least like to play for him (I am not nominating him for head coach at this point). The decisions and results that JJ have will then I assume determine whether JJ is named head coach, this is all based on speculation that BA doesn't come back some time this season and simply isn't in an anger management program for a month and a half. I would hope the AD uses much more than the record for last year and this year to make a decision on who and when is going to represent the flagship athletic program of this University(you never know maybe we can get Rick Pitino to coach? His records would suggest he would make a good coach based your record qualifications udballer? 770–269 :roll: ). If its not clear I am neither advocating for JJ or BA, because I have incomplete data and on what transpired, neither of them have been at the helm long enough and I don't know the financial aspects to make a definitive statement on who should be coach. I do think every day that BA is gone it is that much harder to accept him to comeback on the sidelines. It also might be a little early in the season to make statements that everyone should be fired at this point, now by the end of the season depending on what transpires that maybe the case.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 pm

Commissioner wrote:
Mt. Clemens went 21-2 in JJ's first year and won the conference and district championship. They lost in the regional final to the eventual state champion. They went 24-2 in his second year, won the conference, district, and regional championship, and lost in the state quarterfinals to the eventual state champion (that team was led by Josh Jackson, later the #4 pick in the NBA draft). One of his two regular-season losses was to eventual Class A State Champ Muskegon, with Deyonte Davis. I'd say that was a pretty good record. If the Titans went 45-4 and won two Horizon League championships, then lost in the NCAA to the eventual champs each year, would you say, they "haven't won anything"? Though allegations were made that Jackson improperly recruited players, Jackson was not dismissed for improperly recruiting players and was never found to have done so.


Hi, Commish. I respect the effort to try to turn this around, but comparing MHSAA Class C district and regional tournaments to collegiate conference championships is probably not advisable. Nevertheless, based on your comments I'll gladly update my original comment to "haven't won anything significant". In the grand scheme of things, high school coaching records aren't often brought up when introducing a D1 head coaching hire unless a much better resume (think Perry Watson) is presented.

What exectly do you feel was the reason that JJ was dismissed from Mt. Clemens High? I'm truly interested as it seems a strange move being that a Class C team with little history of success in basketball was putting multiple D1 players on the court (who all left after JJ was dismissed) and, as you noted, going 45-4.

Actually, the Titans had a winning record in JJ's first season on the bench, coming after two losing seasons. And the head coach wasn't a lame duck during the season--he had another year on his contract that eventually necessitated a buy-out, he wasn't terminated until after the season, and the decision to terminate was not made until after the season.


I stand corrected. We'll pretend that Ray wasn't on his way out based on the technical definition of "lame duck". AND you're right that they were 16-15 in Ray's last season. For some reason it looked worse. Thank God for non-D1 teams. You win.

Got me!

That's a short resume, to be sure, but if you're standing by your "facts," then you'd better get some new facts that you can stand by without being embarrassed. I can see where one might not think JJ's resume is enough, but let's at least present it honestly.


I'm far from embarrassed. At times, I feel like I'm the only one hoping for the best for my University. There is far too much, "oh, he lead them to a 2-point win against an average Saint Louis squad... let's give him the job" going on around here.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:36 pm

uofdmik2008 wrote:you never know maybe we can get Rick Pitino to coach? His records would suggest he would make a good coach based your record qualifications udballer? 770–269 :roll: ).


No offense, but what an idiotic comment. If it made any sense to apply that comment to anything I've said, I'd not have written back. Have a good day. :D
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Titans96 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:42 pm

Why is there such an effort to protect the AD? Why do so many on this board not see what harm he has done to the program and the university all in an effort to get JJ into the program? Ray never wanted JJ, yet he was forced to take him by the AD. Bacari never wanted JJ, yet he was forced to take him by the AD. The other prospective coaching candidates turned down the job because a requirement was that JJ was part of the deal. What good AD forces his head coach to hire someone? You sure wouldn’t see Hollis forcing someone on Izzo.

There are way too many on this board who want to give JJ the keys to the team. I guess this board knows more about college basketball than those coaches who are at major D1 programs (the ones who turned down this job).

Why do you think BA and JJ (teammates and roommates in college, “best buddies”) aren’t talking to one another now? Because JJ orchestrated this whole thing and got BA booted by the AD.

The Titans will be much better off with a full cleansing of the AD and Men’s B-ball Coaching Staff.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby ptctitan » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:04 pm

Questions

Wasn't Jermaine Jackson hired as an assistant coach for the 2014-15 season? If so, this would be his fourth year as an assistant coach for the Titans.

Wasn't JJ credited in some newspaper articles by Carlton Brundidge with helping him improve his guard play to the point that CB became an important part of the team in the second half of his final year?

Wasn't JJ also credited with helping Patrick Robinson improve his game to the point that he helped last year's team?

What We Actually Know About the Bacari Situation

1. On 11/13, Bacari did not coach the UM-D game for "personal matters."

2. Bacari did not coach the two tournament games at Belmont on 11/18 and 11/19.

3. On Monday, 11/20, Tony Paul has a column published claiming that Bacari is suspended indefinitely. He cited no sources in his column, but he did rely upon a 20 word written statement from the university that said that as a matter of protocol, the university does not comment publicly about internal "personnel issues."

4. A few hours after Paul's article was published, on 11/20 during the Coaches' radio show with Vowels present, Cliff Russell began the men's segment by citing media reports and repeating that Bacari did not coach due to "personal matters."

5. Bacari then did not coach our games at St. Louis and home against Siena Heights.

6. After the Siena Heights game, Vowels tells the Free Press reporter that this remains an internal personnel issue. He also states that he expects Bacari to return to coaching later this season. He says that there remain a couple of things to work out before a timetable for Bacari's return is set.

7. After the same game, the News published another column by Tony Paul repeating that Bacari remains suspended. Again Paul cites no sources for his claim that Bacari remains suspended. Again, he goes back to the written university statement about its protocol not to comment upon "internal personnel issues."

8. Bacari does not coach our game at Ft. Wayne.

9. The university's website continues to list Bacari as the head coach of the men's team.

10. Bacari's Twitter account continues to identify himself as the head coach of the university's men's basketball team.

11. Bacari is not in any of the videos released by the university so far of the team's trip to UCLA.

12. The university has never said publicly that Bacari is now suspended. Nor has it stated publicly that Bacari ever was suspended for any game - including the UM-D game.

My Opinion

Although it seems like this issue has endured for a very long time, this entire episode is nearing the end of only its 3rd week. I don't think that Bacari is currently suspended. But it is clear that his return to active duty is contingent upon some new terms of employment being agreed upon by the university and Bacari.

JJ's 4 years of assistant coaching experience at UDM have earned him strong consideration to replace Bacari as the head coach if Bacari does not return. However, the last public statement of Vowels told us to expect Bacari's return later this season.

I support the efforts of our current players and coaches to win more games and continue to improve the quality of their play on the court; and, this support does not depend upon the identity of the head coach.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby uofdmik2008 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:53 pm

udballer wrote:
uofdmik2008 wrote:you never know maybe we can get Rick Pitino to coach? His records would suggest he would make a good coach based your record qualifications udballer? 770–269 :roll: ).


No offense, but what an idiotic comment. If it made any sense to apply that comment to anything I've said, I'd not have written back. Have a good day. :D


You obviously did reply, I am not the only one that had issue with your logic on here, thanks to turning to name calling, best way to win an argument always :roll: . By the way, all I implied was the original comment wasn't meant for you and the fact that you are rushing to conclusion, but thanks for the name calling, very adult of you! :lol:
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