Bacari suspended

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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:05 pm

ptctitan wrote:Questions

Wasn't Jermaine Jackson hired as an assistant coach for the 2014-15 season? If so, this would be his fourth year as an assistant coach for the Titans.

Wasn't JJ credited in some newspaper articles by Carlton Brundidge with helping him improve his guard play to the point that CB became an important part of the team in the second half of his final year?

Wasn't JJ also credited with helping Patrick Robinson improve his game to the point that he helped last year's team?

What We Actually Know About the Bacari Situation

1. On 11/13, Bacari did not coach the UM-D game for "personal matters."

2. Bacari did not coach the two tournament games at Belmont on 11/18 and 11/19.

3. On Monday, 11/20, Tony Paul has a column published claiming that Bacari is suspended indefinitely. He cited no sources in his column, but he did rely upon a 20 word written statement from the university that said that as a matter of protocol, the university does not comment publicly about internal "personnel issues."

4. A few hours after Paul's article was published, on 11/20 during the Coaches' radio show with Vowels present, Cliff Russell began the men's segment by citing media reports and repeating that Bacari did not coach due to "personal matters."

5. Bacari then did not coach our games at St. Louis and home against Siena Heights.

6. After the Siena Heights game, Vowels tells the Free Press reporter that this remains an internal personnel issue. He also states that he expects Bacari to return to coaching later this season. He says that there remain a couple of things to work out before a timetable for Bacari's return is set.

7. After the same game, the News published another column by Tony Paul repeating that Bacari remains suspended. Again Paul cites no sources for his claim that Bacari remains suspended. Again, he goes back to the written university statement about its protocol not to comment upon "internal personnel issues."

8. Bacari does not coach our game at Ft. Wayne.

9. The university's website continues to list Bacari as the head coach of the men's team.

10. Bacari's Twitter account continues to identify himself as the head coach of the university's men's basketball team.

11. Bacari is not in any of the videos released by the university so far of the team's trip to UCLA.

12. The university has never said publicly that Bacari is now suspended. Nor has it stated publicly that Bacari ever was suspended for any game - including the UM-D game.

My Opinion

Although it seems like this issue has endured for a very long time, this entire episode is nearing the end of only its 3rd week. I don't think that Bacari is currently suspended. But it is clear that his return to active duty is contingent upon some new terms of employment being agreed upon by the university and Bacari.

JJ's 4 years of assistant coaching experience at UDM have earned him strong consideration to replace Bacari as the head coach if Bacari does not return. However, the last public statement of Vowels told us to expect Bacari's return later this season.

I support the efforts of our current players and coaches to win more games and continue to improve the quality of their play on the court; and, this support does not depend upon the identity of the head coach.


The answer to your first question is no. Unless the school website in incorrect also, I think I'm right on that.

I didn't pay attention to CB or PR enough to answer either of the other two questions. Brundidge basically completed his college career at a similar ability to his senior year of high school and Robinson was a walk on.

Please tell me the last time a 3-year assistant coach from a losing program was a strong candidate for any head coaching position. Is that even a thing?
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:07 pm

uofdmik2008 wrote:
udballer wrote:
uofdmik2008 wrote:you never know maybe we can get Rick Pitino to coach? His records would suggest he would make a good coach based your record qualifications udballer? 770–269 :roll: ).


No offense, but what an idiotic comment. If it made any sense to apply that comment to anything I've said, I'd not have written back. Have a good day. :D


You obviously did reply, I am not the only one that had issue with your logic on here, thanks to turning to name calling, best way to win an argument always :roll: . By the way, all I implied was the original comment wasn't meant for you and the fact that you are rushing to conclusion, but thanks for the name calling, very adult of you! :lol:


Strange reply. What name did I call you? :roll:
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:47 pm

udballer wrote:
Commissioner wrote:
Mt. Clemens went 21-2 in JJ's first year and won the conference and district championship. They lost in the regional final to the eventual state champion. They went 24-2 in his second year, won the conference, district, and regional championship, and lost in the state quarterfinals to the eventual state champion (that team was led by Josh Jackson, later the #4 pick in the NBA draft). One of his two regular-season losses was to eventual Class A State Champ Muskegon, with Deyonte Davis. I'd say that was a pretty good record. If the Titans went 45-4 and won two Horizon League championships, then lost in the NCAA to the eventual champs each year, would you say, they "haven't won anything"? Though allegations were made that Jackson improperly recruited players, Jackson was not dismissed for improperly recruiting players and was never found to have done so.


Hi, Commish. I respect the effort to try to turn this around, but comparing MHSAA Class C district and regional tournaments to collegiate conference championships is probably not advisable. Nevertheless, based on your comments I'll gladly update my original comment to "haven't won anything significant". In the grand scheme of things, high school coaching records aren't often brought up when introducing a D1 head coaching hire unless a much better resume (think Perry Watson) is presented.



Whoa. Who is turning what around. You didn't say, "JJ only has a couple years experience as a high school coach." You said, and I quote, "while not winning anything." JJ was a very successful high school coach. I agree with you that coaching high school ball is not the same as collegiate. But your comment was not that JJ didn't have much experience or much experience at the collegiate level. Your charge was that he had "not [won] anything" as a high school coach, which was presumably an effort to give your argument a little rhetorical boost. But it is simply wrong. That's why I said in my post that there's a sound argument that JJ is not ready to be head coach, but we should at least present his credentials fairly.

What exectly do you feel was the reason that JJ was dismissed from Mt. Clemens High? I'm truly interested as it seems a strange move being that a Class C team with little history of success in basketball was putting multiple D1 players on the court (who all left after JJ was dismissed) and, as you noted, going 45-4.

It's not clear exactly why. But what is clear is to say that he was dismissed for improper recruiting is simply to spread gossip. Does it seem that strange that he got kids to go to Mt. Clemens? Not really, when you consider that JJ was already working with these kids through his hoops academy. Notice that the MHSAA passed a rule to address this after the allegations against JJ, that required players to sit out if they transferred to a school where they had a prior relationship with the coach from other venues, such as AAU or academies. In other words, what JJ did was perfectly within the rules at the time, but some complained it wasn't fair. So they then changed the rule. In fact, that rule is widely called "The Jermaine Jackson rule" by high school coaches. In the stories about his leaving Mt. Clemens, the general complaint was simply "so much drama." There were allegations that he had inflated his son's stats. http://www.macombdaily.com/article/MD/2 ... 140329585; http://www.miprepzone.com/macomb/results.asp?ID=6862.

udballer wrote:
Commissioner wrote:Actually, the Titans had a winning record in JJ's first season on the bench, coming after two losing seasons. And the head coach wasn't a lame duck during the season--he had another year on his contract that eventually necessitated a buy-out, he wasn't terminated until after the season, and the decision to terminate was not made until after the season.


I stand corrected. We'll pretend that Ray wasn't on his way out based on the technical definition of "lame duck". AND you're right that they were 16-15 in Ray's last season. For some reason it looked worse. Thank God for non-D1 teams. You win.


udballer wrote:
Commissioner wrote:Got me!

That's a short resume, to be sure, but if you're standing by your "facts," then you'd better get some new facts that you can stand by without being embarrassed. I can see where one might not think JJ's resume is enough, but let's at least present it honestly.


I'm far from embarrassed. At times, I feel like I'm the only one hoping for the best for my University. There is far too much, "oh, he lead them to a 2-point win against an average Saint Louis squad... let's give him the job" going on around here.

That's fine but you're not longer addressing me.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:01 pm

ptctitan wrote:Questions

Wasn't Jermaine Jackson hired as an assistant coach for the 2014-15 season? If so, this would be his fourth year as an assistant coach for the Titans.

Wasn't JJ credited in some newspaper articles by Carlton Brundidge with helping him improve his guard play to the point that CB became an important part of the team in the second half of his final year?

Wasn't JJ also credited with helping Patrick Robinson improve his game to the point that he helped last year's team?

What We Actually Know About the Bacari Situation

1. On 11/13, Bacari did not coach the UM-D game for "personal matters."

2. Bacari did not coach the two tournament games at Belmont on 11/18 and 11/19.

3. On Monday, 11/20, Tony Paul has a column published claiming that Bacari is suspended indefinitely. He cited no sources in his column, but he did rely upon a 20 word written statement from the university that said that as a matter of protocol, the university does not comment publicly about internal "personnel issues."

4. A few hours after Paul's article was published, on 11/20 during the Coaches' radio show with Vowels present, Cliff Russell began the men's segment by citing media reports and repeating that Bacari did not coach due to "personal matters."

5. Bacari then did not coach our games at St. Louis and home against Siena Heights.

6. After the Siena Heights game, Vowels tells the Free Press reporter that this remains an internal personnel issue. He also states that he expects Bacari to return to coaching later this season. He says that there remain a couple of things to work out before a timetable for Bacari's return is set.

7. After the same game, the News published another column by Tony Paul repeating that Bacari remains suspended. Again Paul cites no sources for his claim that Bacari remains suspended. Again, he goes back to the written university statement about its protocol not to comment upon "internal personnel issues."

8. Bacari does not coach our game at Ft. Wayne.

9. The university's website continues to list Bacari as the head coach of the men's team.

10. Bacari's Twitter account continues to identify himself as the head coach of the university's men's basketball team.

11. Bacari is not in any of the videos released by the university so far of the team's trip to UCLA.

12. The university has never said publicly that Bacari is now suspended. Nor has it stated publicly that Bacari ever was suspended for any game - including the UM-D game.

My Opinion

Although it seems like this issue has endured for a very long time, this entire episode is nearing the end of only its 3rd week. I don't think that Bacari is currently suspended. But it is clear that his return to active duty is contingent upon some new terms of employment being agreed upon by the university and Bacari.

JJ's 4 years of assistant coaching experience at UDM have earned him strong consideration to replace Bacari as the head coach if Bacari does not return. However, the last public statement of Vowels told us to expect Bacari's return later this season.

I support the efforts of our current players and coaches to win more games and continue to improve the quality of their play on the court; and, this support does not depend upon the identity of the head coach.

Nice post.

Jackson was hired in June 2015. This is third year with Titans.

But nice post.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby ptctitan » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:54 pm

JJ is listed as an assistant coach on the 2014-15 roster.

http://www.detroittitans.com/roster.aspx?roster=149&path=mbball
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby ptctitan » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:10 pm

udballer wrote:Please tell me the last time a 3-year assistant coach from a losing program was a strong candidate for any head coaching position. Is that even a thing?


Well, last summer, a 1-year head coach from a losing program got the job at Butler.

Also, Dick Vitale had just two year's experience as an assistant coach at a slightly above .500 Rutgers program when he was hired here in 1973. All of his prior experience was as a high school coach.

Although I understand your point, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules here under the peculiar circumstances at this time.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby bctitans1987 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:06 am

This is on Garibaldi because he hired Vowels. That being said, Vowels is a terrible AD. Look at every team--from the Men's and Women's teams on down. They are bottom-dwellers.

Vowels can't write a simple sentence and is about as impressive as Brad Kinsman.

If the University isn't committed to athletics, shut it down.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:52 am

ptctitan wrote:JJ is listed as an assistant coach on the 2014-15 roster.

http://www.detroittitans.com/roster.aspx?roster=149&path=mbball

http://www.detroittitans.com/news/2015/ ... 53928.aspx
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports ... /84281036/

Dueling links!! Perhaps the truth is lost in the dim recesses of time? :D
Last edited by Commissioner on Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:09 am

ptctitan wrote:
udballer wrote:Please tell me the last time a 3-year assistant coach from a losing program was a strong candidate for any head coaching position. Is that even a thing?


Well, last summer, a 1-year head coach from a losing program got the job at Butler.

Also, Dick Vitale had just two year's experience as an assistant coach at a slightly above .500 Rutgers program when he was hired here in 1973. All of his prior experience was as a high school coach.

Although I understand your point, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules here under the peculiar circumstances at this time.


So, in short, there is no example that you can think of. :) Jordan was an assistant coach at successful programs for 13 years prior to his 1-year head coaching stint, which I'm sure you are well aware. Calling him out is a good defense for backing a BA hire, but not for JJ.

Vitale is a little bit closer of a compare... except that he won back to back state titles at the High School level and was instrumental in recruiting a highly successful Rutgers team which ended up in the Final 4 prior to his Detroit hiring.

I still think the we are in uncharted waters if we hand the coaching job to someone with his level of experience.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby uofdmik2008 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:49 am

udballer wrote:
ptctitan wrote:
udballer wrote:Please tell me the last time a 3-year assistant coach from a losing program was a strong candidate for any head coaching position. Is that even a thing?


Well, last summer, a 1-year head coach from a losing program got the job at Butler.

Also, Dick Vitale had just two year's experience as an assistant coach at a slightly above .500 Rutgers program when he was hired here in 1973. All of his prior experience was as a high school coach.

Although I understand your point, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules here under the peculiar circumstances at this time.


So, in short, there is no example that you can think of. :) Jordan was an assistant coach at successful programs for 13 years prior to his 1-year head coaching stint, which I'm sure you are well aware. Calling him out is a good defense for backing a BA hire, but not for JJ.

Vitale is a little bit closer of a compare... except that he won back to back state titles at the High School level and was instrumental in recruiting a highly successful Rutgers team which ended up in the Final 4 prior to his Detroit hiring.

I still think the we are in uncharted waters if we hand the coaching job to someone with his level of experience.


Absolutely, there is no one here that can say JJ is qualified with today's resume, but he would have to be Interim Head Coach, we wouldn't forfeit the season. What happens if he has a winning season and ends up winning the Horizon Tourney and goes to the NCAA, I think its pointless to speculate at who will be the head coach at the end of the season, considering as far as we know BA is still the head coach, he is listed as head coach by our Athletic Department and they have not said otherwise. What I want is the best for the program, if JJ is the interim head coach the rest of the season and has a successful season I don't see any issues with him being considered for the job, but if there are better candidates that want the job I would hope that we hire them.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:59 am

^ what he said.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:01 pm

udballer wrote:
ptctitan wrote:
udballer wrote:Please tell me the last time a 3-year assistant coach from a losing program was a strong candidate for any head coaching position. Is that even a thing?


Well, last summer, a 1-year head coach from a losing program got the job at Butler.

Also, Dick Vitale had just two year's experience as an assistant coach at a slightly above .500 Rutgers program when he was hired here in 1973. All of his prior experience was as a high school coach.

Although I understand your point, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules here under the peculiar circumstances at this time.


So, in short, there is no example that you can think of. :) Jordan was an assistant coach at successful programs for 13 years prior to his 1-year head coaching stint, which I'm sure you are well aware. Calling him out is a good defense for backing a BA hire, but not for JJ.

Vitale is a little bit closer of a compare... except that he won back to back state titles at the High School level and was instrumental in recruiting a highly successful Rutgers team which ended up in the Final 4 prior to his Detroit hiring.

I still think the we are in uncharted waters if we hand the coaching job to someone with his level of experience.

Bob Calihan. :D

It's pretty hard to think of any recent major D-I hire--or even not so major.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Commissioner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:34 pm

Here's one: Bobby Knight. Coached one year of junior varsity high school ball, two years as an assistant at Army, hired for top job at Army at age 24. Another oldie: Fred Taylor, national champ coach at Ohio State, was hired after 1 year as an assistant--no other coaching experience at any level. Of course, these guys were hired over 50 years ago. Seems a bit different game today.

How about more recently? Dane Fife comes to mind (after too much thought), hired as head coach at Fort Wayne after 2 years as assistant at Indiana--no prior coaching before that.

By the way, I'm not arguing--this is just a matter of curiosity. It's obviously pretty rare for someone with such a short resume to get a D-I head coaching job.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:50 pm

My original comment was that JJ's experience here merits his being given strong consideration if Bacari does not return. That is not the same thing as saying that we should definitely hire him. Maybe we could chip in on a state of the art tanning studio and lure Tom Crean here if Bacari does not return and JJ does not coach the team well. :D

The dueling links could indicate that JJ was hired on consignment here during the 2014-15 season. ;)
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby JDetroitTitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:32 pm

My sources tell me that Bacari is suspended because of some strong language used towards a student or kid that parent(s) worked for the school. That is why he isn’t coaching can anyone verify this?
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby titanmike » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:38 pm

no comment
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby bctitans1987 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:15 pm

If that kid went to his parents and they (the parents) in-turn went to the administration, shame on them. He's a wimp. A pansy. And furthermore: Good luck to the spoiled little brat when he gets into the real world and a boss or customer goes ballistic on him and he starts to cry.

411 to the parents of said kid: Your kid plays for a school that can't beat many D2 or D3 teams--so most likely he sucks (like the rest of the players and coaches). Quite simply: Get over himself.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:50 pm

bctitans1987 wrote:If that kid went to his parents and they (the parents) in-turn went to the administration, shame on them. He's a wimp. A pansy. And furthermore: Good luck to the spoiled little brat when he gets into the real world and a boss or customer goes ballistic on him and he starts to cry.

411 to the parents of said kid: Your kid plays for a school that can't beat many D2 or D3 teams--so most likely he sucks (like the rest of the players and coaches). Quite simply: Get over himself.


I disagree. And how can you just take BA's side without knowing the student or what was allegedly said? Whatever it was, it's enough to warrant at least a 6 game suspension of a head coach. How do you know BA didn't talk inappropriately to a female student? There's nothing more important at a university than keeping our students safe, especially young women (considering sexual assault is an epidemic on university campuses and society at large right now). Hate to suggest the offense could have been something of this nature, I have no idea what happened. But just taking BA's side and calling the student a cry baby isn't ok.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby uofdfan1983 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:58 pm

Because BA coach's the men's team, not the women's team. It was a player. Don't start making this even worse than it already is. A player talked to his parents and it went from there.
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Re: Bacari suspended

Postby udballer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:43 pm

Commissioner wrote:Here's one: Bobby Knight. Coached one year of junior varsity high school ball, two years as an assistant at Army, hired for top job at Army at age 24. Another oldie: Fred Taylor, national champ coach at Ohio State, was hired after 1 year as an assistant--no other coaching experience at any level. Of course, these guys were hired over 50 years ago. Seems a bit different game today.

How about more recently? Dane Fife comes to mind (after too much thought), hired as head coach at Fort Wayne after 2 years as assistant at Indiana--no prior coaching before that.

By the way, I'm not arguing--this is just a matter of curiosity. It's obviously pretty rare for someone with such a short resume to get a D-I head coaching job.


Good research, Commish. Dane Fife would probably the best possible compare and you managed to put it out there. His pedigree is very comparable to JJ's and though his results weren't fanstastic (his team never won more than 18 games in a season at IPFW), he would potentially be the only correct answer to that question. One thing about Fife that cannot be denied is his focus on defense. I'm not sure the two are very similar in that regard. Good call.
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