UCLA preview and game thread

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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby Titans96 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:24 am

77-85Titan wrote:. Final Score: 112-72 with 80 points in the paint.


77-85Titan nailed it! Well done.

The Titans actually played decent based on their ability, but Chatman is the only Titan who could actually compete against this team because of his skill level. The rest of the Titans (including the coaching staff) just don’t have the ability to compete against the Top 75-100 teams in the country. They tried hard, but don’t have the rebounding and shooting skills and no one to get assists. I know Commissioner doesn’t believe that assists matter, but winning teams have point guards who get assists first, and help their teams score points.

In regards to Ballantyne starting, clearly JJ never saw this kid play. He is not, and has never been a rebounder. He wants to shoot 3’s and is afraid of going inside. So seeing how JJ coached this game, he got what he deserved. The game was decided inside and at the foul line. Hogan and Chatman needed to be the focus, but we don’t have anyone to get them the ball inside and the coach obviously doesn’t understand that concept.

Overall, the Titans showed that they are a middle of the pack Horizon League team. That will gave us a close to 300 RPI at year end, unless they miraculously find someone who is willing to get assists and help his teammates score.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby NC Titan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:51 am

Reality check: Who really honestly expect us to run with a PAC 10 team ranked 25 in the country?
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby titandave » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:57 am

Titans96 wrote:In regards to Ballantyne starting, clearly JJ never saw this kid play. He is not, and has never been a rebounder. He wants to shoot 3’s and is afraid of going inside. So seeing how JJ coached this game, he got what he deserved. The game was decided inside and at the foul line. Hogan and Chatman needed to be the focus, but we don’t have anyone to get them the ball inside and the coach obviously doesn’t understand that concept.

Agree with your point on Ballantyne; he's not effective playing near the basket. To make the situation worst; Blackshear is marginal at best and JJ refuses to play Prince. All I can say .... we need Tariiq Jones to become available as soon as possible.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:03 am

Disagree completely. Without JJJr, the Titans would have lost by 50-60 points using McFolley and Black at PG. And UCLA was credited with 49 points in the paint. But it does not take a rocket scientist or staying overnight at a Holiday Inn Express to predict a large disparity in our inside game vs the Bruins. One only need review the rosters and stats of UCLA.

I counted 8 possible assists lost by JJJr because Allen, Chatman, Hogan, and Jones could not finish the play due to missed shots. Chatman missed 11 of 16 shots taken, the most shots taken and missed by any Titan. With UCLA playing twin towers for most of the game and putting a 6'9" swing man on Chatman, it was hard for him to score.

Prince has not been much more effective than Ballantyne in the paint in the last two games. Hopefully, Prince flips a switch to better play starting now.

The next two games are much more important because they are home games against Toledo and Western Michigan. They will tell us much more about our team than tonight's game. With only NKU and Oakland showing any strength in the HL, we have a chance to contend for upper division, as high as 3rd, if we can resume better play against more equally matched talent.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby Commissioner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:40 am

On the plus side, the loss to a highly rated team, plus wins by Seattle and Fort Wayne, boosted our RPI to 166. So there's that. :(
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:31 am

Also, I thought the coaching staff had a good game plan. Start a big line-up and play zone. Force UCLA to shoot long jump shots. Hogan and Ballantyne were our two biggest bodies; they were used to counter the twin towers. Ballantyne gave us some possible added skills on the offensive end. Except UCLA shot lights out for a stretch in the first half. When Ali banked a 3-pt shot in and then was fouled by Ballantyne, that told us that they would shoot well. We closed the margin when their streak ended. But then we missed foul shots. Allen and Chatman looked nervous.

The difference was that they could bring McDonalds All-Americans off the bench and we brought I. Jones, McFolley, and Black. Their players were quicker and/or bigger at every position. Wilkes is 6'8". Smith is 6'9". They guarded Kam. And, again, if any Titan broke by the guards, they had to get by or over 7' Welsh, 6'11" Goloman and/or the 6'10" Olesinski.

As to Prince and Tariiq Jones, we need both of them to play and to play better than they have showed so far this season. Also, we need 30-35 minutes per game from Allen and JJJr in close games. It goes without saying that we will need Chatman for that long, too. Now, we will return to more competitive match-ups. This home stand is critical.

The loss did not bother me as much as Walton's comments about Mercy and how this new brand campaign to placate the sisters has destroyed the school identity that I knew and loved. If anything drives me away from financially supporting the school's athletic department, it will be the new brand - not how soundly we lost to UCLA last night. Very specifically, I have not included the school in my estate plan because of the new brand. And last night, watching DetMercy on the score chiron and hearing Walton's schtick about "Mercy me" made my decision even more irrevocable. I did not attend Mercy. I received my diplomas from the University of Detroit.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby udballer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:46 am

My expectations for this game were modest. I only expected to see a solid effort with team defense combined with a game plan that could potentially allow us to hang around. In short, I was hoping they'd hold UCLA under 95 points.

Only Mendez could have engineered such a showing. :)
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby Titan Jim » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:22 am

ptctitan wrote:The loss did not bother me as much as Walton's comments about Mercy and how this new brand campaign to placate the sisters has destroyed the school identity that I knew and loved. If anything drives me away from financially supporting the school's athletic department, it will be the new brand - not how soundly we lost to UCLA last night. Very specifically, I have not included the school in my estate plan because of the new brand. And last night, watching DetMercy on the score chiron and hearing Walton's schtick about "Mercy me" made my decision even more irrevocable. I did not attend Mercy. I received my diplomas from the University of Detroit.


I too wish it were still the University of Detroit. The problem is that without the financial support of the Sisters of Mercy, there would be no school at all.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby udballer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:36 am

I wasn't able to see the game last night, but I did notice that despite that massive size differential, our shortest player was still able to lead the team in minutes. At least he had his best shooting performance of his young career in response to the faith the coaching staff put in him.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby udballer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:41 am

ptctitan wrote:Disagree completely. Without JJJr, the Titans would have lost by 50-60 points using McFolley and Black at PG.


PTC,

Is this comment based off of something... or are you just showing your support for our young frosh? Having seen both Jr and McFolley and what they bring to the table, I have a very tough time picturing the Titans being 30 points better with Jr as compared to Josh. I'm wondering where this statement is coming from.

As for Dre, I wouldn't necessarily disagree... though 50-60 still seems like an exaggeration.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby Commissioner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:48 am

ptctitan wrote:Also, I thought the coaching staff had a good game plan. Start a big line-up and play zone. Force UCLA to shoot long jump shots. Hogan and Ballantyne were our two biggest bodies; they were used to counter the twin towers. Ballantyne gave us some possible added skills on the offensive end. Except UCLA shot lights out for a stretch in the first half. When Ali banked a 3-pt shot in and then was fouled by Ballantyne, that told us that they would shoot well. We closed the margin when their streak ended. But then we missed foul shots. Allen and Chatman looked nervous.

The difference was that they could bring McDonalds All-Americans off the bench and we brought I. Jones, McFolley, and Black. Their players were quicker and/or bigger at every position. Wilkes is 6'8". Smith is 6'9". They guarded Kam. And, again, if any Titan broke by the guards, they had to get by or over 7' Welsh, 6'11" Goloman and/or the 6'10" Olesinski.

As to Prince and Tariiq Jones, we need both of them to play and to play better than they have showed so far this season. Also, we need 30-35 minutes per game from Allen and JJJr in close games. It goes without saying that we will need Chatman for that long, too. Now, we will return to more competitive match-ups. This home stand is critical.

The loss did not bother me as much as Walton's comments about Mercy and how this new brand campaign to placate the sisters has destroyed the school identity that I knew and loved. If anything drives me away from financially supporting the school's athletic department, it will be the new brand - not how soundly we lost to UCLA last night. Very specifically, I have not included the school in my estate plan because of the new brand. And last night, watching DetMercy on the score chiron and hearing Walton's schtick about "Mercy me" made my decision even more irrevocable. I did not attend Mercy. I received my diplomas from the University of Detroit.


I agree with this analysis. Prince has not much impressed when he's had the chance to play, but I still think he should get more opportunities. He was a beast in the Big West last year, especially on the boards, where we need help. For whatever reason, neither Bacari nor JJ has shown much interest in playing him at least 20 minutes a game. Blackshear isn't doing a thing. I appreciate that JJ used his lineup to try to counter UCLA's height, with Isaiah Jones also playing a much larger role. I had thought our big improvement this year would be in the front line. Unfortunately, it seems our front line is as weak as last year, with Hogan not doing nearly as much, Blackshear's disappearance, the disappointment of Prince, Tariiq being injured, and Ballantyne being a freshman. Isaiah played pretty well last night--maybe he needs more time.

I also agree re "Mercy." It's true, as Jim points out, that they stepped in and saved the University. But that isn't a perpetual excuse to destroy the asset they bought. "Detroit Mercy" as an athletic name is so rinky-dink--it's exactly the type of name everyone else is trying to get away from, and while its a fine enough name for a college, for athletic teams it's begs for stale, insulting puns and cliches. It separates us from our heritage and past acheivements, the latter of which are, unfortunately, already a distant or non-existent memory for most Detroiters and most college hoops fans. But why destroy that connection which remains?

I tried to get with the program this year, but couldn't. For me it's "UD" or "University of Detroit" or "Detroit," and that's what I'm calling it. That's where All-Americans Bob Calihan, Bill Ebben, Dave DeBusschere, Spencer Haywood, and others played, that's where Dick Vitale, Smokey Gaines, and Perry Watson coached, that's the school that used to regularly host Villanova, Notre Dame, and the like, and that's our heritage. Detroit Mercy is some little D-I newbie in a conference with Sacred Heart, Incarnate Word, and the like.
Last edited by Commissioner on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:22 pm

udballer wrote:
ptctitan wrote:Disagree completely. Without JJJr, the Titans would have lost by 50-60 points using McFolley and Black at PG.


PTC,

Is this comment based off of something... or are you just showing your support for our young frosh? Having seen both Jr and McFolley and what they bring to the table, I have a very tough time picturing the Titans being 30 points better with Jr as compared to Josh. I'm wondering where this statement is coming from.

As for Dre, I wouldn't necessarily disagree... though 50-60 still seems like an exaggeration.


It's my opinion based upon watching the game last night and having watched Josh's play over the past 3 years. IMO, Josh is a PG-sized player with an off-guard's skill set. UCLA would have pressured him and forced a lot of turnovers. As to 50-60, OK maybe 40-45 - similar to KU's thrashing of OU. I like Josh and how hard he plays. I just don't think he is a better PG than JJJr. And last night, that was made clear when we subbed him for JJJr in the first half when we still were close to UCLA. Then, we weren't close. IMO, JJJr was the only Titan starter who handled the big time atmosphere consistently and well. Both Corey and Kam struck me as overly excited in the first half and unable to adapt entirely to the opponent's pace. I say this even though Corey also made some big time plays and shots in the first half. But Kam was neutralized. Hogan was too slow for the game. The only other Titan who stepped up and played with an attitude was Isaiah Jones. When he stuffed Wilkes a la Rick Mahorn and did not let him score an easy lay-up, I liked that a lot. Obviously, Wilkes did not.

We have more good players than last year. And Josh has an important role on this team. But we need others like Prince and Tariiq Jones to step forward and contribute. And we need Isaiah Jones to continue to improve. He could provide a big difference in the HL because he seems to have enough quickness to contribute some effective minutes. He and Hogan could make a good positional tandem sharing minutes with Jones as the defensive enforcer and Hogan as a more polished offensive player. I'm cautiously optimistic about our ability to win in the HL.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:39 pm

Titan Jim wrote:I too wish it were still the University of Detroit. The problem is that without the financial support of the Sisters of Mercy, there would be no school at all.


I realize that. But we are not talking about the formal name of the university. We are talking about a situation similar to Coca Cola's decision to change the formula of its flagship brand, Coke. My education occurred at U-D. Here we have an effort to align the school with the turnaround in the city of Detroit and we adopt a new brand that turns us into the Mercy institution that is located in Detroit just like Houston Baptist is the Baptist institution located in Houston. Mercy is being emphasized to the point that the general public now emphasizes that name instead of the name "Detroit" that was associated with this university for 139 consecutive years from 1877-2016. It's a BS brand. I really dislike it.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby Titans96 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:57 pm

ptctitan wrote:
udballer wrote:
ptctitan wrote:Disagree completely. Without JJJr, the Titans would have lost by 50-60 points using McFolley and Black at PG.


PTC,

Is this comment based off of something... or are you just showing your support for our young frosh? Having seen both Jr and McFolley and what they bring to the table, I have a very tough time picturing the Titans being 30 points better with Jr as compared to Josh. I'm wondering where this statement is coming from.

As for Dre, I wouldn't necessarily disagree... though 50-60 still seems like an exaggeration.


It's my opinion based upon watching the game last night and having watched Josh's play over the past 3 years. IMO, Josh is a PG-sized player with an off-guard's skill set. UCLA would have pressured him and forced a lot of turnovers. As to 50-60, OK maybe 40-45 - similar to KU's thrashing of OU. I like Josh and how hard he plays. I just don't think he is a better PG than JJJr. And last night, that was made clear when we subbed him for JJJr in the first half when we still were close to UCLA. Then, we weren't close. IMO, JJJr was the only Titan starter who handled the big time atmosphere consistently and well. Both Corey and Kam struck me as overly excited in the first half and unable to adapt entirely to the opponent's pace. I say this even though Corey also made some big time plays and shots in the first half. But Kam was neutralized. Hogan was too slow for the game. The only other Titan who stepped up and played with an attitude was Isaiah Jones. When he stuffed Wilkes a la Rick Mahorn and did not let him score an easy lay-up, I liked that a lot. Obviously, Wilkes did not.

We have more good players than last year. And Josh has an important role on this team. But we need others like Prince and Tariiq Jones to step forward and contribute. And we need Isaiah Jones to continue to improve. He could provide a big difference in the HL because he seems to have enough quickness to contribute some effective minutes. He and Hogan could make a good positional tandem sharing minutes with Jones as the defensive enforcer and Hogan as a more polished offensive player. I'm cautiously optimistic about our ability to win in the HL.



PTC,

You can't compare the Titans loss to UCLA with OU's loss to Kansas. UCLA is not a top 25 team, and the Titans got crushed. OU got smashed by the #2 team in the country. If the Titans played Kansas, Duke, MSU they would lose by 50-60 easily if not more. The Titans would be begging for the "Detroit Mercy" rule.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:01 pm

ptctitan wrote:
Titan Jim wrote:I too wish it were still the University of Detroit. The problem is that without the financial support of the Sisters of Mercy, there would be no school at all.


I realize that. But we are not talking about the formal name of the university. We are talking about a situation similar to Coca Cola's decision to change the formula of its flagship brand, Coke. My education occurred at U-D. Here we have an effort to align the school with the turnaround in the city of Detroit and we adopt a new brand that turns us into the Mercy institution that is located in Detroit just like Houston Baptist is the Baptist institution located in Houston. Mercy is being emphasized to the point that the general public now emphasizes that name instead of the name "Detroit" that was associated with this university for 139 consecutive years from 1877-2016. It's a BS brand. I really dislike it.


Our chance to go back to UD was with the SimpsonScarborough survey/analysis 2 years ago. I believe Mik stated Garibaldi wanted to go back to UD but it wasn't sellable to the trustees? I'll let Mik weigh in if he wants to. Bottom line is, if it didn't happen then it's never going to happen. Like I've said 1,000 times already, we need to be consistent and if we are going to be University of Detroit Mercy, we need to brand athletics that same name. I liked going back to UD for the reasons you stated but we can forget about it now.

What's disappointing is that our rebrand has not worked (papers, broadcasters, etc. constantly call us "Detroit" or "UDM". Heck, during the SLU broadcast, the score on the screen said "Detroit". The rebrand has been an unmitigated disaster. I'm convinced the only way to get the new name to stick is a sweet 16 appearance. Unfortunately we have a suspended head coach, and it looks like more serious problems in the Athletic department. Hard to imagine things being much worse. I suppose if BA never got Chatman to sign and had Allen reopened his recruitment things would be worse. You'd have what will probably be an 8 win team instead be a 2 win team.
Make Detroit Mercy Do Great Things Again!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/defe ... o-students
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:16 pm

Titans96 wrote:PTC, You can't compare the Titans loss to UCLA with OU's loss to Kansas. UCLA is not a top 25 team, and the Titans got crushed. OU got smashed by the #2 team in the country. If the Titans played Kansas, Duke, MSU they would lose by 50-60 easily if not more. The Titans would be begging for the "Detroit Mercy" rule.


I did not compare last night's loss to KU's rout of OU at Phog Allen. I did not say that UCLA is as good as KU. I said that if McFolley and Black played PG last night instead of JJJr's 33 minutes, the scoring margin would have been similar to the OU at KU differential. BTW, why the constant pumping and defending of OU here? I'm beginning to think Titan is not in your blood because your comments are very similar to a grizzlies fan who trolls UD in Tony Paul's twitter feed.

Tacitus651 wrote:Our chance to go back to UD was with the SimpsonScarborough survey/analysis 2 years ago.


As Sean Connery learned, Never Say Never Again. Or as Doctor Evil once remarked, "Just put a frickin' hyphen between Detroit and Mercy." :D
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby titanmike » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:28 pm

Titan Jim wrote:
ptctitan wrote:The loss did not bother me as much as Walton's comments about Mercy and how this new brand campaign to placate the sisters has destroyed the school identity that I knew and loved. If anything drives me away from financially supporting the school's athletic department, it will be the new brand - not how soundly we lost to UCLA last night. Very specifically, I have not included the school in my estate plan because of the new brand. And last night, watching DetMercy on the score chiron and hearing Walton's schtick about "Mercy me" made my decision even more irrevocable. I did not attend Mercy. I received my diplomas from the University of Detroit.


I too wish it were still the University of Detroit. The problem is that without the financial support of the Sisters of Mercy, there would be no school at all.


True, but the punishment for being short sighted on the financials should no longer be criticized. The short sightedness on the name reversal has done more damage by far as time has gone on.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby udballer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:06 pm

ptctitan wrote:
udballer wrote:
ptctitan wrote:Disagree completely. Without JJJr, the Titans would have lost by 50-60 points using McFolley and Black at PG.


PTC,

Is this comment based off of something... or are you just showing your support for our young frosh? Having seen both Jr and McFolley and what they bring to the table, I have a very tough time picturing the Titans being 30 points better with Jr as compared to Josh. I'm wondering where this statement is coming from.

As for Dre, I wouldn't necessarily disagree... though 50-60 still seems like an exaggeration.


It's my opinion based upon watching the game last night and having watched Josh's play over the past 3 years. IMO, Josh is a PG-sized player with an off-guard's skill set. UCLA would have pressured him and forced a lot of turnovers. As to 50-60, OK maybe 40-45 - similar to KU's thrashing of OU. I like Josh and how hard he plays. I just don't think he is a better PG than JJJr. And last night, that was made clear when we subbed him for JJJr in the first half when we still were close to UCLA. Then, we weren't close. IMO, JJJr was the only Titan starter who handled the big time atmosphere consistently and well. Both Corey and Kam struck me as overly excited in the first half and unable to adapt entirely to the opponent's pace. I say this even though Corey also made some big time plays and shots in the first half. But Kam was neutralized. Hogan was too slow for the game. The only other Titan who stepped up and played with an attitude was Isaiah Jones. When he stuffed Wilkes a la Rick Mahorn and did not let him score an easy lay-up, I liked that a lot. Obviously, Wilkes did not.

We have more good players than last year. And Josh has an important role on this team. But we need others like Prince and Tariiq Jones to step forward and contribute. And we need Isaiah Jones to continue to improve. He could provide a big difference in the HL because he seems to have enough quickness to contribute some effective minutes. He and Hogan could make a good positional tandem sharing minutes with Jones as the defensive enforcer and Hogan as a more polished offensive player. I'm cautiously optimistic about our ability to win in the HL.


I'm still getting hung up on the math. I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Based on your comments, it seems Josh (our starting PG for the past two years) would have to turn it over 15'ish times (and UCLA would have to turn all 15 into points) in order to create the differential you initially noted. I've watched him for about 4 years now and truly don't see that happening. And, on defense, he is much better at turning over the other team (as he did @ UCLA) so really he'd probably need to turn it over 20 times in 33 minutes to produce that kind of horrible outcome. In the end, all we really know is what happened and that was JJ getting the bulk of the minutes and the Titans getting beat by 33. In reality, there isn't a person on our team that could keep that score closer without a much better strategy in place.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby titandave » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:42 pm

ptctitan wrote:We have more good players than last year. And Josh has an important role on this team. But we need others like Prince and Tariiq Jones to step forward and contribute. And we need Isaiah Jones to continue to improve. He could provide a big difference in the HL because he seems to have enough quickness to contribute some effective minutes. He and Hogan could make a good positional tandem sharing minutes with Jones as the defensive enforcer and Hogan as a more polished offensive player. I'm cautiously optimistic about our ability to win in the HL.

Totally agree, we have more talent this season. I like your idea of Hogan and Isaiah Jones playing a positional tandem at Center. Like others on the board; I'm perplexed regarding the lack of playing time for Price especially during the past several games when Tariiq Jones was not available.
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Re: UCLA preview and game thread

Postby ptctitan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:02 pm

udballer - thanks for the exchange of ideas and opinions here. I base my math mostly on the two segments in the first half during which McFolley played. When he first subbed into the game for JJJr., the score was 16-13 UCLA. When he returned to the bench about 4 and 1/2 minutes later, the score was 36-16 UCLA. Then, Allen and JJJr played together again. The score again narrowed to 42-30 UCLA. Then, McFolley came back in the game for the last 3:13 during which time the score again widened to 52-35 UCLA. I'm looking at the first half because that is when we still had a chance to keep it respectable. The two scoring differentials increased by -17 and -5 when McFolley played. When JJJr and Allen played together, we were -3 and +8 in the first half.
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