POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

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What will it Take to not want BA fired

Win the HL
0
No votes
Win the HL 2018 tournament
1
5%
Finish in the top 2 team in the HL
0
No votes
Finish in the top 3 team in the HL
1
5%
Finish in the top 4 team in the HL
0
No votes
Finish with a 0.500 record
4
21%
Beat OU twice this year
0
No votes
He remains if we see a change in culture, effort, defensive focus and accountability from all parties that remains and builds through the last game.
7
37%
It doesn't matter what happens this year he still needs another year
6
32%
 
Total votes : 19

POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby JDetroitTitan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:20 am

Pick the one you need him to do at least to bring you back to this program
Last edited by JDetroitTitan on Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby uofdfan1983 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:27 am

My vote is for this option:
He remains if we see a change in culture, effort, defensive focus and accountability from all parties that remains and builds through the last game.
Tom Buysse
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby JDetroitTitan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:30 am

uofdfan1983 wrote:My vote is for this option:
He remains if we see a change in culture, effort, defensive focus and accountability from all parties that remains and builds through the last game.


Ok I added it to the poll
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Re: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby HSScout1 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:33 am

To finish .500, I believe we would have to go at least 12-4 in its final 16 regular-season games, which is extremely unlikely. Plus, I remember prior to the season, Vowels said something to the effect that he expected a .500 season this year.
However, I voted a top 3 finish in the Horizon to save BA, unless BA's misconduct was way worse than reported or the problems continue to happen. I also think this team will win some League games including maybe 2 of 3 or even a sweep in the upcoming games vs Cleveland St, Y St, and IUPUI and avoid the record books
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby ptctitan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:56 pm

He needs at least 3 years. He has chosen not to try the quick fix of mostly impact JUCO's and transfers in order to recover quickly. He got us our first early signings in several years. Both of these players have good potential and more length. Last year at this time, we were 2-13 with only one win over a D-1 program. Prince is starting to play better. We are rebounding better as a team - rebounds per game are up about 10% over last season. Team assists are slowly trending higher after cratering vs WMU and UM. Turnovers are trending slowly lower. Opponents' field goal percentage is lower than last year. Scoring differential at this point last year was -146. This year it is -91.

Small initial steps. But they are generally moving in the right direction. Biggest problem this year is the players choke when the games get close. That's lack of experience and maturity under pressure. All but one of the non-power school games have been close, 3 or 4 possession differences. Last year, most games were rarely that close. The trend in many areas is positive even though this trend has not yet produced as many wins as I expected by this time. A lot of improvement is still required for this team to have a chance at a winning HL record.

Hopefully, these small improvements accelerate throughout the year and produce more wins than currently expected amidst the current morass of doom and gloom that permeates this board.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby Motor City Sam » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:30 pm

Sigh. BA did not get us our first early signings in "several years". Corey Allen, Josh McFolley, Gerald Blackshear and Jaleel Hogan all signed early. If you don't believe me, you can look it up.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby cedar1973 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:36 pm

There is nothing he can do. He must go along with the AD and staff. Blow it up and start with a drive to Excellence and Competitiveness in HL and D1
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby ptctitan » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:20 pm

Sam,

Gee whiz. The adjective "several" means 3 or more of something to me. Blackshear and McFolley were the last November signings before Nelson and Hightower. Josh and Gerald Jr were announced on November 13, 2014.

And just for the record, I was not unreservedly in favor of firing Ray. Here is the link to the board's final poll in March 2016.

https://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2741&p=39432

My full opinion posted in that thread at that time was:

"I would note that someone on the current staff has coached up Jaleel very well. And it took about 6 months for JJ to help make CB much more productive. I do think that the pre-season expectations of many posters here were unreasonably high given the overall lack of experience of our players and the lack of interior size. And we do not know the effects of injuries on some of them like Grant last year, Jarod's knee and Jenkins at Green Bay. That said, no one is irreplaceable.

You make a change if it can improve things. Without the full financial and administrative support from the President on down to the alumni, making a change for change's sake would not create any lasting improvements. I trust Vowels to make the best decision because he knows best the true commitment of the President to raising the performance of the men's basketball team. Whatever he decides, I will support. I trust that everyone here will do the same."


I gave you the link and my comment to save you the time of "looking it up."

I am not your adversary on the issue of Ray. I simply noted that with the imposition of the 30 second clock and new rules interpretations and emphases, Ray made the strategic decision to emphasize offense over defense because he thought that this gave the team the best chance to take advantage of these changes. I never thought that his decision was unreasonable at the time he made it. Only that he recruited players to play that style. Bacari has decided to change that style of play.

I am analyzing these issues from an organizational perspective and you seem to be interpreting my analysis as anti-Ray and pro-BA. That is not my intent. When I said biased analysis, I was not thinking of your posts, I was thinking of those posters who see JJ as evil and who can never do anything right. Ray is not the bad guy. He was not a bad coach or a bad person. BA is not the bad guy either. The question does remain whether BA is the right guy for the job. Both men are simply the guys in the organization at various times over about the past 10 years who made certain decisions and recruited certain players that produced certain results. In any organizational transition, there always exists friction between the old ways and personnel and the new ways and personnel. There is an overlap of cause and effect. It's just human nature. Especially when the successor has a significantly different philosophy on the relative importance of defense and what types of players to recruit. That's all I see here. And that's why I voted for Bacari having at least 3 years to prove himself.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby Motor City Sam » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:46 pm

ptctitan wrote:Sam,

Gee whiz. The adjective "several" means 3 or more of something to me. Blackshear and McFolley were the last November signings before Nelson and Hightower. Josh and Gerald Jr were announced on November 13, 2014.

And just for the record, I was not unreservedly in favor of firing Ray. Here is the link to the board's final poll in March 2016.

https://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2741&p=39432

My full opinion posted in that thread at that time was:

"I would note that someone on the current staff has coached up Jaleel very well. And it took about 6 months for JJ to help make CB much more productive. I do think that the pre-season expectations of many posters here were unreasonably high given the overall lack of experience of our players and the lack of interior size. And we do not know the effects of injuries on some of them like Grant last year, Jarod's knee and Jenkins at Green Bay. That said, no one is irreplaceable.

You make a change if it can improve things. Without the full financial and administrative support from the President on down to the alumni, making a change for change's sake would not create any lasting improvements. I trust Vowels to make the best decision because he knows best the true commitment of the President to raising the performance of the men's basketball team. Whatever he decides, I will support. I trust that everyone here will do the same."


I gave you the link and my comment to save you the time of "looking it up."

I am not your adversary on the issue of Ray. I simply noted that with the imposition of the 30 second clock and new rules interpretations and emphases, Ray made the strategic decision to emphasize offense over defense because he thought that this gave the team the best chance to take advantage of these changes. I never thought that his decision was unreasonable at the time he made it. Only that he recruited players to play that style. Bacari has decided to change that style of play.

I am analyzing these issues from an organizational perspective and you seem to be interpreting my analysis as anti-Ray and pro-BA. That is not my intent. When I said biased analysis, I was not thinking of your posts, I was thinking of those posters who see JJ as evil and who can never do anything right. Ray is not the bad guy. He was not a bad coach or a bad person. BA is not the bad guy either. The question does remain whether BA is the right guy for the job. Both men are simply the guys in the organization at various times over about the past 10 years who made certain decisions and recruited certain players that produced certain results. In any organizational transition, there always exists friction between the old ways and personnel and the new ways and personnel. There is an overlap of cause and effect. It's just human nature. Especially when the successor has a significantly different philosophy on the relative importance of defense and what types of players to recruit. That's all I see here. And that's why I voted for Bacari having at least 3 years to prove himself.



Corey Allen was an early signing. He committed to Detroit in October of 2015 and signed in November. He had a signing ceremony at school and it was announced by him and others in the media. So, no, BA did not get our first early signing in several years, even using your personal definition of the word several.

I don't have an issue with people who were in favor of letting Ray go. I didn't agree, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have issues with attempts to revise history to make it look like BA took over such a horrible situation.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby MooseGuy1 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:55 pm

uofdfan1983 wrote:My vote is for this option:
He remains if we see a change in culture, effort, defensive focus and accountability from all parties that remains and builds through the last game.


+1. I'm with Tom on this one. If we see things going in this direction it would be dumbheaded to can him.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby MooseGuy1 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:07 pm

Motor City Sam wrote:Sigh. BA did not get us our first early signings in "several years". Corey Allen, Josh McFolley, Gerald Blackshear and Jaleel Hogan all signed early. If you don't believe me, you can look it up.


This is all true. Sam, I remember talking to you about this when it was happening. We talked about Corey quite a bit as he was an Ypsi kid. Even though there were already rumblings about Ray getting fired even then, these were definitely Ray's early signings.

ptc, that is the truth. I seem to recall talk of Jay Smith scouting them, especially as concerns Corey. And he was Ray's assistant. And unless my mind is fuzzy (that could be), they all committed early.

Like Sam, I've been pigeonholed as a Ray apologist or fan boy or something like that. That's never been the case. I liked Ray a lot, I admit that. But he's gone now and Bacari is the man. I'm fine with that if it helps the basketball team. I'm actually in the position now of wondering if Bacari is getting sandbagged by others in the program. And I hope I'm wrong on that count.

It's not about building up Ray's reputation or shooting down BA. For me, it's important that we not rewrite history and make Ray a scapegoat for problems 1 and a half years into BA's regime. I voted here to keep Bacari past this year if we show steady improvement, a change of culture, et al.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby Motor City Sam » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:48 pm

MooseGuy1 wrote:
uofdfan1983 wrote:My vote is for this option:
He remains if we see a change in culture, effort, defensive focus and accountability from all parties that remains and builds through the last game.


+1. I'm with Tom on this one. If we see things going in this direction it would be dumbheaded to can him.


I'm torn between Tom's suggestion and just saying give him another year regardless. I like to see coaches get three years.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:59 pm

It's really too bad BA didn't have a McDonalds All American living in his basement that would have been a college freshman this year.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby udballer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:34 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:It's really too bad BA didn't have a McDonalds All American living in his basement that would have been a college freshman this year.


Too bad JJ didn't either. ;)
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby MooseGuy1 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:38 pm

udballer, that's kind of cold but funny.

A third year would also be fine with me unless something really bad happened. Not wins or losses, necessarily, but some kind of occurrence that would demonstrate that the 7 game suspension incident would become a pattern. Other than that, I'd stick with Bacari. By the time a coach gets through his third year we'll know if it's going in the right direction. Plus the thought of another move back to square one with a new coach doesn't appeal to me at all.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby Motor City Sam » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:40 pm

udballer wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:It's really too bad BA didn't have a McDonalds All American living in his basement that would have been a college freshman this year.


Too bad JJ didn't either. ;)


That was as cold as the temperature in Michigan...
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby udballer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:40 pm

Basically 4 or 5 of the choices may as well say "fire him now", because they just aren't attainable. I went with the continual improvement in all aspects type answer. This team needs to show progress, and I don't mean statistical progress like going from -100 in point differential to -50, while facing a slew of different teams... I mean real-life, point to it on the floor type of progress. I'm sure that 90% of us can watch a game and see improvement if it's there. That's what I'd like to see because up until this point BA has the team playing at less than the sum of its parts.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby JDetroitTitan » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:37 am

Do you think there is enough attendance this year to pay for BA contract of 400k ?
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby udballer » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:45 am

JDetroitTitan wrote:Do you think there is enough attendance this year to pay for BA contract of 400k ?


Great question. The attendance is scary low. I made sure to buy two waters, a pretzel and a popcorn tonight. Even got cheese for the pretzel ya know, doing my part. The concession lines were good though we did have one other person in front of us the second time we went.

Just terrible.
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Re: POLL: What will it Take to not want BA fired

Postby titanmac » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:39 pm

ba’s big mistake in my view was refusing to clean house. he inherited ray’s guys who wanted to play rays game. undertandable but difficult to address when you need to change a culture. cleaning house allows for that. its noteworthy that ray did it. otherwise you get reaistance and pushback. my estimation is that’s exactly what ba is fighting through now. he’ll need a lot of luck as well as skill to overcome it.
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