Bacari's Defensive Goals

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Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby ptctitan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:43 am

Last night, on the coaches radio show, Bacari laid out specific goals for his defense.

1. Allow 70 points or less per game.

2. Hold opponents to a 40% or lower FG percentage.

3. Hold opponents to a 33% or less 3-point FG percentage.

Except for the NKU game, the team has not achieved all 3 of those goals in one game. They achieved two of those goals in the SLU game. How frequently this team achieves these goals over the next 14 games will be a valid measure of the coaching.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby Tacitus651 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:18 am

Image
ptc when his Titans give maximum effort and achieve ALL 3 goals in one game.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby ptctitan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Young man, I thought they were also your Titans.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby Tacitus651 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:51 am

They definitely are MY Titans. I actually really like this thread and I think it'll be useful. I have a good feeling we can hit all 3 tomorrow night.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby The-Dude » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:21 pm

This must be a joke? Why would BA broadcast such unrealistic goals? How about we start with these goals:

1. Hold opponents under 100 pts per game.
2. Play permiter defense, once in a while.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby Titans96 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:14 am

Hey, better late than never for BA to finally have some defensive goals. I guess he needed around 50 games to get an idea of the right “process” to follow and be able to set some goals.

Or maybe this is the best time to roll this genius idea out since three of the worst teams in the country are about to battle the Titans. Cleveland State with 332 RPI. Youngstown State with 285 RPI. EIEIO at a 290 RPI. Our mighty Titans are at a 271 RPI. What is sad is our loss to Green Bay was to the worst HL RPI Team at 340.

The genius of BA is amazing and not noticed by the common man.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby ptctitan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:44 am

The-Dude wrote:This must be a joke? Why would BA broadcast such unrealistic goals? How about we start with these goals:

1. Hold opponents under 100 pts per game.
2. Play permiter defense, once in a while.


Funny you should ask. As to the coach's goals, in the 17 games played so far, our Titans have met the coach's goals as follows:

Points Allowed: St. Louis, Siena Hts, NKU. Record: 2-1.

Field Goal %: Siena Hts, NKU. Record: 1-1

3 point FG %: VaTech, UM-D, Houston Baptist, St Louis, Siena Hts, Western Mich, ETSU, and NKU. Record: 4-4

As to your goals: #1 is measurable and has been met in 13 of the 17 games played. Record: 3-10.

I like Bacari's goals better than yours. When they are met, they appear to produce better results.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby The-Dude » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:28 am

ptctitan wrote:
The-Dude wrote:This must be a joke? Why would BA broadcast such unrealistic goals? How about we start with these goals:

1. Hold opponents under 100 pts per game.
2. Play permiter defense, once in a while.


Funny you should ask. As to the coach's goals, in the 17 games played so far, our Titans have met the coach's goals as follows:

Points Allowed: St. Louis, Siena Hts, NKU. Record: 2-1.

Field Goal %: Siena Hts, NKU. Record: 1-1

3 point FG %: VaTech, UM-D, Houston Baptist, St Louis, Siena Hts, Western Mich, ETSU, and NKU. Record: 4-4

As to your goals: #1 is measurable and has been met in 13 of the 17 games played. Record: 3-10.

I like Bacari's goals better than yours. When they are met, they appear to produce better results.


Ptc, I would like to extend an apology to you dude. I agree with you that we should let the numbers speak for themself.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby udballer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:14 pm

Game 1: Cleveland State (Home)

Entering the game, CSU was shooting: .434 FG%, .315 3FG%. They were averaging 68.2 points and 12.9 turnovers per game.

vs. Detroit Mercy:

FG% - 55.4%
3FG% - 45.2%
Points - 84
Turnovers - 14

I've added turnovers as it could be significant, though it wasn't specifically called out by BA.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby udballer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:18 pm

Game 2: Youngstown State (Home)

Entering the game, YSU was shooting: .436 FG%, .325 3FG%. They were averaging 75.9 points and 15.3 turnovers per game.

vs. Detroit Mercy

FG% - 50.7%
3FG% - 50%
Points - 91
Turnovers - 16

Complete failure to meet BAs goals on any level for the second game in a row, but the offense has managed to sneak out a winning streak. These numbers don't bode well for playing the better teams or on the road, but for tonight I'll enjoy the win. :)
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby Motor City Sam » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:42 pm

udballer wrote:Game 2: Youngstown State (Home)

Entering the game, YSU was shooting: .436 FG%, .325 3FG%. They were averaging 75.9 points and 15.3 turnovers per game.

vs. Detroit Mercy

FG% - 50.7%
3FG% - 50%
Points - 91
Turnovers - 16

Complete failure to meet BAs goals on any level for the second game in a row, but the offense has managed to sneak out a winning streak. These numbers don't bode well for playing the better teams or on the road, but for tonight I'll enjoy the win. :)


Fortunately, there aren't many good teams in the HL this season. Even missing Chatman and Hogan, the Titans had more talent on the floor than CSU and YSU the past two games.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby The-Dude » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:40 am

Motor City Sam wrote:
udballer wrote:Game 2: Youngstown State (Home)

Entering the game, YSU was shooting: .436 FG%, .325 3FG%. They were averaging 75.9 points and 15.3 turnovers per game.

vs. Detroit Mercy

FG% - 50.7%
3FG% - 50%
Points - 91
Turnovers - 16

Complete failure to meet BAs goals on any level for the second game in a row, but the offense has managed to sneak out a winning streak. These numbers don't bode well for playing the better teams or on the road, but for tonight I'll enjoy the win. :)


Fortunately, there aren't many good teams in the HL this season. Even missing Chatman and Hogan, the Titans had more talent on the floor than CSU and YSU the past two games.


Sam, to be more specific, we had 3 points worth more talent in the last two games. BA is taking OU like talent and turning them into basement dwellers. Another game of missed defensive goals. We let them shoot 50% from 3 and let them score over 90 points.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby ptctitan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:03 am

At this point, finding a way to win in the face of adversity is more important than reaching the per game defensive goals. We have lost 4 guys who all have length out of our game rotation. Take Morse out of YSU's line-up and Word out of CSU's line-up, how well would those two teams have fared against us under those circumstances?

So, we are back to the small 3 guard line-up or 2nd and 3rd stringers with length on defense. I agree that this poses problems for us against the better teams in the HL. The small 3 guards were a big reason for our poor defensive FG% earlier this year. As a team, each player must simply suck it up each game and compete as hard as possible while staying connected as a team. As a fan, that's all I ask for in each game.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby udballer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:17 pm

ptctitan wrote:At this point, finding a way to win in the face of adversity is more important than reaching the per game defensive goals.

As a fan, that's all I ask for in each game.


For you, that may indeed be enough. For me, I need to see defensive improvement from the team. Players will come and go, be available and not be available, but a good defensive system is consistent regardless.

Following the NKU game, you had stated that we were trending better defensively and BA had goals. You noted those goals and this thread was started to keep track of defensive progress through statistical measures (your personal favorite).

Not two games have passed and you just came with "blah blah blah is more important than meeting defensive goals". Maybe that's true... but it's certainly not true on this thread.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby Commissioner » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:53 pm

One thing that has really disappointed me the past two years is the extent to which Bacari's teams are more or less like Ray's teams, only worse. That is, the criticism of Ray's teams (and hence Ray) was that we didn't play defense; in particular we were terrible at perimeter defense and letting other teams get open looks from three; that we may too many bonehead plays at critical moments; and that we never seemed to have in-bounds or final shot plays with any originality. I would say that all of those things remain weaknesses.

I had really thought that Bacari and JJ would install some of the toughness on defense that was the hallmark of their teams. Both JJ and Bacari were named to the MCC All-Defensive team. Maybe it demonstrates the old adage that those that can't do, teach; those that can do don't always make the best teachers. I don't know.

Last night YSU scored on their last 6 possessions, and 16 of 20 possessions beginning at the 10 minute mark. We were lucky that we were just able to outscore them, thanks to JJJ finding his shot for threes and Corey knocking down one free throw after another.

In the CSU game, the Vikings scored on 12 of 13 possessions between the 12 and 5 minute marks, going from a tie game to a 5 point lead. Fortunately, they couldn't stop us much either. We scored on 9 of 11 possessions, plus 3 more added to the front and back ends of that CSU string to have us scoring on 12 of 14 possessions. But when you score on 12 of 14 possessions, you really ought to be gaining major ground. The Titans finally got some stops that allowed us to rally--CSU scored on just one of their next 6 possessions, and we went from 5 down to 5 up. But we couldn't get a stop in the final minute, with the Vikings scoring on 3 straight possessions-8 points--to rally from five down before Corey's last second heroics. We need to be able to get stops at crucial moments--we're not going to simply outscore better teams all the time.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby ptctitan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:05 pm

The point of this thread was to measure whether the coaching staff was coaching up the players on defense. Currently, 4 of those players are not playing. And, it looks like 2-3 of them may not play again this season. That constitutes adversity.

"At this point" means playing in the immediate aftermath of losing Chatman, Hogan, and T.Jones in short order. I expect the new group of players in the rotation to improve defensively. At this point, winning is more important than playing a tough defensive game. Ultimately, however, the new guys in the rotation must step up their defense as we move through the rest of the schedule.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby udballer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:14 pm

Commissioner wrote:One thing that has really disappointed me the past two years is the extent to which Bacari's teams are more or less like Ray's teams, only worse. That is, the criticism of Ray's teams (and hence Ray) was that we didn't play defense; in particular we were terrible at perimeter defense and letting other teams get open looks from three; that we may too many bonehead plays at critical moments; and that we never seemed to have in-bounds or final shot plays with any originality. I would say that all of those things remain weaknesses.

I had really thought that Bacari and JJ would install some of the toughness on defense that was the hallmark of their teams. Both JJ and Bacari were named to the MCC All-Defensive team. Maybe it demonstrates the old adage that those that can't do, teach; those that can do don't always make the best teachers. I don't know.

Last night YSU scored on their last 6 possessions, and 16 of 20 possessions beginning at the 10 minute mark. We were lucky that we were just able to outscore them, thanks to JJJ finding his shot for threes and Corey knocking down one free throw after another.

In the CSU game, the Vikings scored on 12 of 13 possessions between the 12 and 5 minute marks, going from a tie game to a 5 point lead. Fortunately, they couldn't stop us much either. We scored on 9 of 11 possessions, plus 3 more added to the front and back ends of that CSU string to have us scoring on 12 of 14 possessions. But when you score on 12 of 14 possessions, you really ought to be gaining major ground. The Titans finally got some stops that allowed us to rally--CSU scored on just one of their next 6 possessions, and we went from 5 down to 5 up. But we couldn't get a stop in the final minute, with the Vikings scoring on 3 straight possessions-8 points--to rally from five down before Corey's last second heroics. We need to be able to get stops at crucial moments--we're not going to simply outscore better teams all the time.


Exactly. The defense remains a major cause for concern. It needs to improve by leaps and bounds if the Titans have ideas of ever recreating some of the moments that BA and JJ got to experience when they played.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby udballer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:18 pm

ptctitan wrote:The point of this thread was to measure whether the coaching staff was coaching up the players on defense. Currently, 4 of those players are not playing. And, it looks like 2-3 of them may not play again this season. That constitutes adversity.

"At this point" means playing in the immediate aftermath of losing Chatman, Hogan, and T.Jones in short order. I expect the new group of players in the rotation to improve defensively. At this point, winning is more important than playing a tough defensive game. Ultimately, however, the new guys in the rotation must step up their defense as we move through the rest of the schedule.


I got it. As long as new faces come and go from the lineup, progress is not to be expected. Sounds like great news for BA and his staff.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby ptctitan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:34 pm

udballer wrote:I got it. As long as new faces come and go from the lineup, progress is not to be expected. Sounds like great news for BA and his staff.


No. I said that it will take a few games for the rotation to get used to each other. It's a transition and it is not seamless because the new replacements in the primary rotation have different skills and talents than the plyers they are replacing. If they were equal or better defensively than Hogan and Tariiq, then they would have been playing more minutes.
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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

Postby Resurget Cineribus » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:42 pm

Commissioner wrote:One thing that has really disappointed me the past two years is the extent to which Bacari's teams are more or less like Ray's teams, only worse. That is, the criticism of Ray's teams (and hence Ray) was that we didn't play defense; in particular we were terrible at perimeter defense and letting other teams get open looks from three; that we may too many bonehead plays at critical moments; and that we never seemed to have in-bounds or final shot plays with any originality. I would say that all of those things remain weaknesses.

I had really thought that Bacari and JJ would install some of the toughness on defense that was the hallmark of their teams. Both JJ and Bacari were named to the MCC All-Defensive team. Maybe it demonstrates the old adage that those that can't do, teach; those that can do don't always make the best teachers. I don't know.

Last night YSU scored on their last 6 possessions, and 16 of 20 possessions beginning at the 10 minute mark. We were lucky that we were just able to outscore them, thanks to JJJ finding his shot for threes and Corey knocking down one free throw after another.

In the CSU game, the Vikings scored on 12 of 13 possessions between the 12 and 5 minute marks, going from a tie game to a 5 point lead. Fortunately, they couldn't stop us much either. We scored on 9 of 11 possessions, plus 3 more added to the front and back ends of that CSU string to have us scoring on 12 of 14 possessions. But when you score on 12 of 14 possessions, you really ought to be gaining major ground. The Titans finally got some stops that allowed us to rally--CSU scored on just one of their next 6 possessions, and we went from 5 down to 5 up. But we couldn't get a stop in the final minute, with the Vikings scoring on 3 straight possessions-8 points--to rally from five down before Corey's last second heroics. We need to be able to get stops at crucial moments--we're not going to simply outscore better teams all the time.


I was at the game and it looked like most of the 3s that YSU made at the end were very well contested. They were just falling. How do you defend a hot shooter with a hand in his face?
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