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Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:45 pm
by udballer
ptctitan wrote:If they were equal or better defensively than Hogan and Tariiq, then they would have been playing more minutes.


That's a crazy statement. Josh is 5x the defender of JJJ, yet JJJ gets the minutes. Why is he getting the minutes? is a question that many of us ask... but the reason is certainly not his defensive prowess. Yet, your comment implies that the best defenders are the players on the court which is obviously not an accurate statement. If defense were the primary criteria for gaining minutes, then Cole Long and Isaiah Jones would have played much more than they have.

Listen, I get that (as a huge BA slappy) you will do whatever you can to apply good performances to BA and find reasons to discount bad performances. You're taking it a bit too far in this case by implying that nearly two seasons into his tenure, any change in personnel should equate in the group being given time to gel before grading their defensive performance.

I would actually suggest that IF BA has designs on instituting a high level defense, the best opportunity to judge progress is when individual players are unavailable and backups are forced to play.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:33 pm
by ptctitan
udballer - no, no, no. You misunderstand my point. Chatman has been out for 3 games and maybe one more. I. Jones is out for an indefinite period. Hogan and T. Jones are likely gone for the rest of the season. All 4 of these players were part of the 8-9 man rotation used by the coaches to achieve the improved defensive statistics. Black has replaced T. Jones and Blackshear/Ballantyne have replaced Hogan/I. Jones. These are not 1 for 1 replacements. Ask Michigan State whether Kenny Goins replaced fully their losses at the post last season.

I agree that these roster losses give us a chance to see whether the replacements can improve defensively. My point is that it just does not happen immediately. That's all. Thus, during this roster transition, I am more happy to get the win than to get the better stats. Eventually, I want both in a few more games.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:55 pm
by The-Dude
When Ray was hired, he never publicaly stated that he would instill a strong defensive system. When BA was hired, defense was a major cog in his vision and he discussed it extensively. Ultimately, BA has failed miserably at instilling any type of defensive scheme. IMO, this issue is not defensible.

Btw, where are you TitanMac?! I sure miss you Dude...

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:40 pm
by ptctitan
Losing attitudes always emphasize the negative in a two-game winning streak that occurred despite the sudden losses of our leading scorer, our starting 4 year senior center, a key talented reserve, and our leading shot blocker. Sometimes you gotta win ugly. And that is a lot better than losing 56-54 even though you met your defensive goals. But some here feel compelled to turn wins into something negative.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:41 am
by StJoeUofD
As possibly the only one on the forum who got to see Ray play both in high school and college, there was never a moment that I expected him to emphasize defense. He was truly a great offensive player. Due to his stature, he was always all about winning by scoring. He tried to play good defense, but when the guy you are guarding is 6 inches taller than you are, the number of ways to defend him are more limited than if you defend someone of your own height. Ray made his name with offense.

Although I didn't get to see BA or JJ play in high school, I was able to see both of them play for the Titans. Perry's teams did have a lock down type of defense in their back pockets that they were able to call upon when needed. BA and JJ both learned and executed this.

For me, not seeing this on the current team is sad. I was always excited to be at a game with Butler up by 10 with 6 minutes to go and watch the defensive smother them while creeping back into the game. This "make yourself big" by widening your stance, extending your arms and move two steps closer to the shooter gets me to move to the edge of my seat. Watching a team in this mode, with the squint eyed look staring directly at the guy they are defending, is a great part of successful basketball. Although I was not in favor of removing Ray before the end of his contract, I was excited by the possibility of seeing this type of defense from two of Perry's proteges. It would be a true joy for me to see that evolve during the last 9 games of the season so I can be right with my 6-3 Titan W-L prediction.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:41 pm
by udballer
Not a good defensive first half. That said, Kam was back in the lineup today, so we've got to give them time to gel. We probably shouldn't expect much out of the defense for a few games until the guys get used to each other again.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:47 pm
by Big Chuck
baller, you have to be kidding!

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:55 pm
by udballer
Big Chuck wrote:baller, you have to be kidding!


Trust me, I am. :D

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:48 pm
by udballer
Game 3: IUPUI (Away)

Entering the game, IUPUI was shooting: .418 FG%, .332 3FG%. They were averaging 68 points and 13.9 turnovers per game.

vs. Detroit Mercy

FG% - 51.9%
3FG% - 47.8%
Points - 81
Turnovers - 16

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:51 pm
by Tacitus651
So you're saying we got the turnovers but did NOT make them count?

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:05 pm
by HSScout1
Tacitus651 wrote:So you're saying we got the turnovers but did NOT make them count?


In the spirit of giving, we take their turnovers and we give them right back

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:11 pm
by Tacitus651
Image

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:13 pm
by The-Dude
Ptc, I’m sorry that this thread turned out the way it did. You’re so positive and I admire that but I’m gutted right now dude. We are such a badly coached team. I’m sorry that the truth hurts sometimes and I know you’re gonna hurt when you see this but do know that we’re all hurting with you dude...

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:14 pm
by udballer
Lol. Good to see our spirit cannot be crushed! The board is more entertaining than the team at this point.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:17 pm
by MooseGuy1
The Chernobyl meltdown was more entertaining.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:21 pm
by udballer
The-Dude wrote:Ptc, I’m sorry that this thread turned out the way it did. You’re so positive and I admire that but I’m gutted right now dude. We are such a badly coached team. I’m sorry that the truth hurts sometimes and I know you’re gonna hurt when you see but do know that we’re all hurting with you dude...


No need to apologize, Dude. If I'm certain of anything in this world, I'm certain that PTC will find a glass-half-full statistic that shows the progress this team is making under BA.

It does hurt to watch the Titans; this season more than most. At least last year I had the possibility that Corey or Josh would put on a shooting exhibition and will us to a win. This year, they appear to be our 3rd and 7th scoring options.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:14 am
by TitanTarHeel
udballer wrote:Lol. Good to see our spirit cannot be crushed! The board is more entertaining than the team at this point.


Right on! Misery loves company, and frankly what is there to argue about right now? We all know what we are seeing, and we all feel the annoyance/pain of the state of the Titans.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:54 pm
by ptctitan
Things were moving in the right direction until the FERPA matters took Hogan and T. Jones out of the line-up two games after Chatman was injured. This year's team is not that deeply talented or experienced to lose those two players from the primary 8-9 man rotation. The loss of those two players, likely to grades, removed 18 points and 8 rebounds per game from the rotation. That's a huge hole to fill with #10-13 on the depth chart. Our play could have withstood the loss of I.Jones and the temporary loss of Chatman to injuries. However, Hogan was the most experienced player on the team. And T. Jones may be the most athletic player on the team - except for Josh. The combination of events created a huge hole in the rotation - especially on the defensive side of things.

It will be tougher for the replacements to get the defense back on trend. At best, it may take a few more games. At worst, it may never happen. We already have seen the inconsistent play out of Ballantyne and Blackshear. Good one game, bad the next.

But dude, the coach set the goals. He holds the players accountable. Ultimately, it's on the players to execute. The stats speak for themselves. At least the second half defensive FG% was under 50%. But that does not matter when you first spot them 23 points. A mature team would not lollygag out there for the first 20 minutes and need a 23 point deficit to motivate them to play. A mature team should not even need the coaches to motivate them to play hard.

The remaining players on this team need to exert 120% effort at all times in order to remain competitive in every game.

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:14 pm
by udballer
ptctitan wrote:Things were moving in the right direction until the FERPA matters took Hogan and T. Jones out of the line-up two games after Chatman was injured.


Were they? Or did NKU have a very poor shooting day... once? I honestly could not picture myself disagreeing more with another Titan fan. Where I saw an out-of-shape, foul machine in Jaleel... you saw a defensive stalwart. More power to you.

In the end, the numbers are speaking for themselves.

P.S. Citing the 2nd half defensive field goal % being under 50% (as a high point) was priceless. Thanks for keeping your spirits up on behalf of the rest of us. ;)

Re: Bacari's Defensive Goals

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:59 pm
by ptctitan
udballer - why do you frequently exaggerate or twist what I write to suit your viewpoint?

For example, above I said that Hogan was the most experienced player on the team and that he and T. Jones together were 18 points and 8 rebounds per game. I did not say that he was a defensive stalwart. Also, moving in the right direction is not the same thing as saying we were meeting our goals consistently.

In the 14 games between the Seattle game and the Youngstown St game, only 3 times had our defensive FG% exceeded 50%. In 7 of the 9 games before the YSU game, our defensive FG% was under 50% and in 5 of those 9 games, it was 45% or lower.

Since the loss of T. Jones and Hogan, we have not held an opponent to less than a 50% FG%. Hogan may not be a stalwart or in shape; but, in his absence, our opponents are making 3-6 more shots per game than they were making with him playing. So far, that's the difference between him in the line-up through the NKU game and not in the line-up for the last 3 games.

As to the 2nd half FG% last night, you omitted my next sentence stating that this number does not matter when you first spot the opponent 23 points on their home court. Sorry for assuming that you could read the sarcasm in my words.

As to the importance of Hogan's playing time, the stats do speak for themselves.