JJJr

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JJJr

Postby titanmike » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:47 am

I think we some are being to harsh when it comes to JJjr. Mind you, I am in agreement that I think it would be a good idea if he came off the bench. He certainly hasn't shown , overall, that he can shoot as well as his dad, Rashad etc. Can we lighten up on him a bit though. He is college freshman who has had some pretty nice games for us thus far. I would say a considerable amount of pressure when your Dad is assistant, former Titan, former NBA player etc. You deal with all the questions, accusations, etc that you are just in because of Dad etc. Do we really know this though.

Growing pains right? Now if you ask me if the coaching staff has made the right choice to start him or not, tough call. I would lean toward not. I think despite having some issues themselves, Josh, Dre, etc should get the nod. He should take a cue from his dad though and shoot less. JJsr had great FG%'s, similar to Rashad, but he knew when to shoot and when not to shoot. I think Jr will learn this as he goes along.

Anyhow, just my two cents.
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Re: JJJr

Postby Motor City Sam » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:05 am

I agree that people should lighten up on him. He's been taking some abuse from the crowd in the games I have attended this year. I don't think the coaching staff is doing him any favors playing him so much, because I don't think he's ready to consistently contribute right now. Not his fault; it's a big jump from high school to D1 and the Titans have faced some good guards. I thought being brought along gradually behind Josh and Corey would have been the right course for him, but apparently the coaching staff had a different plan.

I think he'll end up being a very good player for the Titans during his career.
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Re: JJJr

Postby HSScout1 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:22 am

Motor City Sam wrote:I agree that people should lighten up on him. He's been taking some abuse from the crowd in the games I have attended this year. I don't think the coaching staff is doing him any favors playing him so much, because I don't think he's ready to consistently contribute right now. Not his fault; it's a big jump from high school to D1 and the Titans have faced some good guards. I thought being brought along gradually behind Josh and Corey would have been the right course for him, but apparently the coaching staff had a different plan.

I think he'll end up being a very good player for the Titans during his career.


I agree. I think a lot of the frustration has to do with the coaches. They give him the starting position, they give him the (excessive) playing time, they don't seem to punish/discipline/correct when him when he makes mistakes or takes ill advised shots (because he stays in the game and the problems continue). There's an air of favoritism. Lets face it, he's a skilled, but raw, player, who is going to need time to develop. It can't help morale when the assistant coaches son gets more PT that some older more established players, or more rope than the other freshman/newcomers who make the same mistakes.
I'm glad we have JJ, Jr. I just hope the staff finds the right formula to develop him into an all league talent by the time he's an upperclassman
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Re: JJJr

Postby ptctitan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:38 am

Jermaine Jr is a freshman. He has played some good games and some bad games. A lot of his early season minutes came in the small 3 guard line-up. Also, the coaches gave him minutes in bad losses for him to get experience. We would not have started our 3 game winning streak in November if he had not made those two 3's in the final 13 seconds of the Houston Baptist game. He shot lights out at Green Bay and was the only reason we were in the game in the final 7 minutes. He played a good game at UCLA. The coaches had him on the floor for the final 6 minutes of yesterday's game. Most games, his play is inconsistent. He seems unable to finish most drives to the basket. He seems to have one good half and one bad one. As to how many minutes he plays each game, his play will determine it from here on out. The coaches want him taking only step-in 3's. In other words, he plays like a freshman. The best thing is that JJJr will be a sophomore next year.
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Re: JJJr

Postby Titans96 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:09 am

Let's be real here. Basketball is not just about shooting. We know he can't shoot well at all and has to have one of the worst shooting percentages in D1. But everyone seems to miss how terrible his defense is and how badly that poor defense hurts the team. So take the missed shots (which in essence is a turnover because we don't get any points and the other team gets the ball), but his poor defense forces his teammates to help and that leaves another opponent open or his opponent gets an easy bucket.

Allen was a freshman last year, but he was able to execute at a pretty good level. So the coaching braintrust decides to give more minutes to JJJr versus last years HL Freshman of the Year.

Stop the lame excuse that "Jermaine Jr is a freshman". If you are a freshman, and you are shooting poorly, you should know to pass more and shoot less - somehow JJJr doesn't realize this fundamental golden rule of basketball. And by the way, if you are a player you better learn how to play defense, or you should NEVER play. If you are a coach, and your player (any grade in school) doesn't see the obvious, you take him out and coach him on the fundamental golden rule of basketball. So in this magical Titanland, we not only have a freshman who doesn't understand the game, we have coaches who don't understand the game. Hence our great record and our continually decreasing RPI.
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Re: JJJr

Postby udballer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:26 am

ptctitan wrote:Jermaine Jr is a freshman. He has played some good games and some bad games. A lot of his early season minutes came in the small 3 guard line-up. Also, the coaches gave him minutes in bad losses for him to get experience. We would not have started our 3 game winning streak in November if he had not made those two 3's in the final 13 seconds of the Houston Baptist game. He shot lights out at Green Bay and was the only reason we were in the game in the final 7 minutes. He played a good game at UCLA. The coaches had him on the floor for the final 6 minutes of yesterday's game. Most games, his play is inconsistent. He seems unable to finish most drives to the basket. He seems to have one good half and one bad one. As to how many minutes he plays each game, his play will determine it from here on out. The coaches want him taking only step-in 3's. In other words, he plays like a freshman. The best thing is that JJJr will be a sophomore next year.


Is that a typo? Jr was not on the floor for the final 6 minutes of yesterday's game, and I specifically gave the coaching staff props for that. He only re-entered with about 2 minutes remaining because Dre got poked in the eye. I was surprised that the staff was not trying to force him back into the game prior to that... which was a very nice thing to see.

I'm also very happy that JJJ is a Titan and I think he can grow into an excellent college player. I've not been happy with the staff's decisions in how to use him, but that is not his fault. The fact that he is the ONLY person on the team to get the start in all 18 games this season is confounding. This is especially true when the staff seems to have used 8 different strategies when selecting starters for any particular game over the course of the season. It reeks of favoritism, but again not his fault.
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Re: JJJr

Postby ptctitan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 am

udballer - you are correct. He spelled Black for a minute at 6:39 and then came back in with 15 seconds left. He did not play well yesterday. BA has made it pretty clear during interviews that he will play his 5 best guys late in every specific game in order to win. Yesterday, JJJr was not one of his five best players. Good lesson for the frosh.
Last edited by ptctitan on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: JJJr

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:38 am

At least for next year's prediction contest I know to pick JJJ for most starts. He could have a broken leg and he'd be starting.
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Re: JJJr

Postby TitanTarHeel » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:38 am

It's not an excuse, but it is in absolute fact true he is a freshman. Every year there are 5*, highly recruited frosh come into D1 and struggle to get into the flow, get their confidence, etc. As others have noted, and you are agreeing with, he does not appear to be used, developed or coached properly at this point in his career. You want to give players some rope to go out and play, and not be constantly looking over their shoulder - BUT, it does seem JJJ would benefit from the hook more often than not due to poor shots or poor defense.

Hometown product Cassius Winston really struggled his frosh year -- turnovers, poor shots, lackadaisical defense. Now he's lauded by national pundits and his importance to running one of the top teams in the country. JJJ sure isn't Cassius, don't get me wrong, but it does show that freshmen are freshmen at this level. Also, you would see Izzo angrily pull Cassius from games last year and have him sit. Our coaches are teaching and coaching JJJ different than that to date.

The development from Frosh to Soph year is a telling one and it can be a big one for those players who are on their way. I still have longer term belief in JJJ being a good D1 PG, and perhaps a all-HL selection come his Senior year. That is certainly an outcome that could occur, but that development, hard work, and coaching needs to be there to get him there.
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Re: JJJr

Postby ptctitan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:54 am

"JJJr is a freshman" applies to his overall play -- not just his shooting. Experience is the best teacher. And very few freshman play well. The better ones have superior talent that masks many of their mistakes. Good example of Cassius Winston, who still makes mistakes as a sophomore. So far, this year, I cringe when both JJJr and Josh shoot 3's. My only point has been that JJJr is a better PG than Josh or Dre. That does not mean that he always plays better than those guys. And it does not mean that he is shooting well this year. In a recent interview, BA said that he has been tougher recently on Corey in order to make him a better all-around player. Corey has become a better rebounder and passer in response to this toughness.

I can see this attitude shifting to JJJr now that he has played 18 games. Especially when his assist totals have dropped in the past two games.
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Re: JJJr

Postby udballer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:06 am

ptctitan wrote: My only point has been that JJJr is a better PG than Josh or Dre.


That point has been our primary disagreement. To me, JJJ is the superior ball handler at this point. Josh is the better shooter (the only by a bit this year). I'll put them neck-and-neck as playmakers as neither of them have impressed in that regard this season. A good case for this was on display last night when the best play either of them made might have been when Josh drove baseline and delivered a pass around the defender to Prince under the hoop. The ball bounced off Prince's chest and out of bounds. Josh's reward? A second turnover on his stat line. That is an example of where the eye test trumps statistical analysis... and it happened all of the time to Rashad, back in the day.

Now, on the defensive side of the ball... there is no comparison at this point in their careers. Josh is ahead defensively in a landslide... which is why I'd have him get the Lions share of the minutes between the two. If the opposition decides to go into a full-court press or some other pressure defense and Josh & Corey don't seem equipped to handle it... by all means bring JJJ back into the game.

As far as Dre... I love his effort, but have never seen him as someone who should receive significant minutes in D1 basketball.
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Re: JJJr

Postby uofdfan1983 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:16 am

I am not a huge Dre fan either (I think he's another one who shoots too much) but he tries really hard all the time and last night he was a difference-maker. He was that good on defense and shot well and was a positive. He won't give you that every game but when he's doing well, play him over JJJ if JJJ is struggling.
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Re: JJJr

Postby titandave » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:08 pm

udballer wrote:That point has been our primary disagreement. To me, JJJ is the superior ball handler at this point. Josh is the better shooter (the only by a bit this year). I'll put them neck-and-neck as playmakers as neither of them have impressed in that regard this season. A good case for this was on display last night when the best play either of them made might have been when Josh drove baseline and delivered a pass around the defender to Prince under the hoop. The ball bounced off Prince's chest and out of bounds. Josh's reward? A second turnover on his stat line. That is an example of where the eye test trumps statistical analysis... and it happened all of the time to Rashad, back in the day.

Now, on the defensive side of the ball... there is no comparison at this point in their careers. Josh is ahead defensively in a landslide... which is why I'd have him get the Lions share of the minutes between the two. If the opposition decides to go into a full-court press or some other pressure defense and Josh & Corey don't seem equipped to handle it... by all means bring JJJ back into the game.

As far as Dre... I love his effort, but have never seen him as someone who should receive significant minutes in D1 basketball.

Agree with your points ..... I would like to see Josh start at PG (20-25 minutes) with JJJ playing off the bench (15-20 minutes) and Dre rides the pine.
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Re: JJJr

Postby Commissioner » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:03 pm

Thanks, Mike. An overdue thread. We are fortunate that JJJ chose to play at UD. Lots of kids don't choose to play for Dad, and there are many difficulties with doing so (such as putting up with some of the type of crap we see from some on this board). I always chuckle a bit when doing armchair coaching, because our coaches surely know the players better than I, and probably know a helluva lot more basketball, too. Still, like most (I think) on this board, I was a bit surprised to see JJJ starting and playing so many minutes. McFolley and Allen are pretty good guards. The Titans' weakness last year was in the front court, not at guard. The three guard lineup left that weakness intact--maybe even worse, given Hogan's relative ineffectiveness and JJJ's lack of size (when we used 3 guards last year the third was usually Williams, who has 6 inches on JJJ and had become a very good rebounder with some decent post moves.

I think, apparently like several others here, that JJJ should be playing roughly 20 minutes or so per game. Pencil in Allen for 30-35, McFolley for 25-30, Black (who hustles and plays hard and can be effective if not asked to do more than he can do) picks up 6-10 minutes per game in a three guard lineup and spot substitutions. JJJ makes lots of freshman mistakes. I'm not sure that this was the year to have him learn as a 33 minute a game starter. But he is an excellent free throw shooter (despite his near fatal miss last night), doesn't turn it over, brings a certain dynamism to the floor. He contributes now, and he's going to be a very good player for us down the road.

In defense of our little community, I think people are, for the most part, fair to JJJ and appreciate what he brings to our team. It's just that one or two guys, filled with vitriol and nastiness, turn every thread into a 3 minute hate rant against JJ and JJJ. They're so ubiquitous that it starts to seem like everyone is always ragging on the Jacksons, and especially on Triple J.

JJJ, on the rare possibility you read this board, lots of us fans appreciate you.
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Re: JJJr

Postby TitanTarHeel » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:08 pm

Commish doing what Commish does...he posts good, thoughtful content. Thank you sir.
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Re: JJJr

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:26 pm

Good post, but "UD"?!
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Re: JJJr

Postby uofdmik2008 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:10 pm

Commissioner wrote:Thanks, Mike. An overdue thread. We are fortunate that JJJ chose to play at UD. Lots of kids don't choose to play for Dad, and there are many difficulties with doing so (such as putting up with some of the type of crap we see from some on this board). I always chuckle a bit when doing armchair coaching, because our coaches surely know the players better than I, and probably know a helluva lot more basketball, too. Still, like most (I think) on this board, I was a bit surprised to see JJJ starting and playing so many minutes. McFolley and Allen are pretty good guards. The Titans' weakness last year was in the front court, not at guard. The three guard lineup left that weakness intact--maybe even worse, given Hogan's relative ineffectiveness and JJJ's lack of size (when we used 3 guards last year the third was usually Williams, who has 6 inches on JJJ and had become a very good rebounder with some decent post moves.

I think, apparently like several others here, that JJJ should be playing roughly 20 minutes or so per game. Pencil in Allen for 30-35, McFolley for 25-30, Black (who hustles and plays hard and can be effective if not asked to do more than he can do) picks up 6-10 minutes per game in a three guard lineup and spot substitutions. JJJ makes lots of freshman mistakes. I'm not sure that this was the year to have him learn as a 33 minute a game starter. But he is an excellent free throw shooter (despite his near fatal miss last night), doesn't turn it over, brings a certain dynamism to the floor. He contributes now, and he's going to be a very good player for us down the road.

In defense of our little community, I think people are, for the most part, fair to JJJ and appreciate what he brings to our team. It's just that one or two guys, filled with vitriol and nastiness, turn every thread into a 3 minute hate rant against JJ and JJJ. They're so ubiquitous that it starts to seem like everyone is always ragging on the Jacksons, and especially on Triple J.

JJJ, on the rare possibility you read this board, lots of us fans appreciate you.


Yes what he said ^
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Re: JJJr

Postby Titans96 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:30 pm

Commissioner wrote:Thanks, Mike. An overdue thread. We are fortunate that JJJ chose to play at UD. Lots of kids don't choose to play for Dad, and there are many difficulties with doing so (such as putting up with some of the type of crap we see from some on this board). I always chuckle a bit when doing armchair coaching, because our coaches surely know the players better than I, and probably know a helluva lot more basketball, too. Still, like most (I think) on this board, I was a bit surprised to see JJJ starting and playing so many minutes. McFolley and Allen are pretty good guards. The Titans' weakness last year was in the front court, not at guard. The three guard lineup left that weakness intact--maybe even worse, given Hogan's relative ineffectiveness and JJJ's lack of size (when we used 3 guards last year the third was usually Williams, who has 6 inches on JJJ and had become a very good rebounder with some decent post moves.

I think, apparently like several others here, that JJJ should be playing roughly 20 minutes or so per game. Pencil in Allen for 30-35, McFolley for 25-30, Black (who hustles and plays hard and can be effective if not asked to do more than he can do) picks up 6-10 minutes per game in a three guard lineup and spot substitutions. JJJ makes lots of freshman mistakes. I'm not sure that this was the year to have him learn as a 33 minute a game starter. But he is an excellent free throw shooter (despite his near fatal miss last night), doesn't turn it over, brings a certain dynamism to the floor. He contributes now, and he's going to be a very good player for us down the road.

In defense of our little community, I think people are, for the most part, fair to JJJ and appreciate what he brings to our team. It's just that one or two guys, filled with vitriol and nastiness, turn every thread into a 3 minute hate rant against JJ and JJJ. They're so ubiquitous that it starts to seem like everyone is always ragging on the Jacksons, and especially on Triple J.

JJJ, on the rare possibility you read this board, lots of us fans appreciate you.


Then I’ll keep this short and sweet... what do you “appreciate” that JJJr “brings to our team”?

His shooting (30% - worst on team) or his defense (worst on the team)? Maybe it’s just his foul shooting?
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Re: JJJr

Postby MooseGuy1 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:37 pm

Titans96 wrote:
Commissioner wrote:Thanks, Mike. An overdue thread. We are fortunate that JJJ chose to play at UD. Lots of kids don't choose to play for Dad, and there are many difficulties with doing so (such as putting up with some of the type of crap we see from some on this board). I always chuckle a bit when doing armchair coaching, because our coaches surely know the players better than I, and probably know a helluva lot more basketball, too. Still, like most (I think) on this board, I was a bit surprised to see JJJ starting and playing so many minutes. McFolley and Allen are pretty good guards. The Titans' weakness last year was in the front court, not at guard. The three guard lineup left that weakness intact--maybe even worse, given Hogan's relative ineffectiveness and JJJ's lack of size (when we used 3 guards last year the third was usually Williams, who has 6 inches on JJJ and had become a very good rebounder with some decent post moves.

I think, apparently like several others here, that JJJ should be playing roughly 20 minutes or so per game. Pencil in Allen for 30-35, McFolley for 25-30, Black (who hustles and plays hard and can be effective if not asked to do more than he can do) picks up 6-10 minutes per game in a three guard lineup and spot substitutions. JJJ makes lots of freshman mistakes. I'm not sure that this was the year to have him learn as a 33 minute a game starter. But he is an excellent free throw shooter (despite his near fatal miss last night), doesn't turn it over, brings a certain dynamism to the floor. He contributes now, and he's going to be a very good player for us down the road.

In defense of our little community, I think people are, for the most part, fair to JJJ and appreciate what he brings to our team. It's just that one or two guys, filled with vitriol and nastiness, turn every thread into a 3 minute hate rant against JJ and JJJ. They're so ubiquitous that it starts to seem like everyone is always ragging on the Jacksons, and especially on Triple J.

JJJ, on the rare possibility you read this board, lots of us fans appreciate you.


Then I’ll keep this short and sweet... what do you “appreciate” that JJJr “brings to our team”?

His shooting (30% - worst on team) or his defense (worst on the team)? Maybe it’s just his foul shooting?


First of all, a big +1 to Commissioner.

Now, 96:

I appreciate that he shoots 90% from the free throw line. It's an elite average in any leaague.

I appreciate that quality free throw shooting is usually the result of taking thousands and thousands of shots. Former Piston Rip Hamilton, in response to somebody suggesting that he was a "naturally" good FT shooter, once said (and I paraphrase), "There was nothing natural about it. People who say that about me don't have any idea how many free throws I practiced growing up. One after the other. Hundreds of thousands." That tells me something very important about Jermaine: The kid is not afraid of work. A strong work ethic will take you a long way.

I appreciate that he plays under an even bigger microscope than most D-1 players because of his father being his coach. He has to hear about charges of nepotism when the fact is that it's his coaches who put him out there as freshman to play probably too many minutes at this stage of his career. He tries to do what is asked of him, even if he struggles as most frosh do.

I appreciate that he is a small man playing in a game of giants. He'll drive the hoop on guys who are a foot taller and 80 pounds heavier. It's not always well advised, I'll grant you, but it takes courage and I respect that.

I appreciate that he has to put up with comments on a public forum ranging from criticism about his utilization as a player (a fair thing as it's really a criticism of the coaching) to some of the downright nasty things someone like 96 posts (not at all fair, really mean-spirited, and just plain ugly). My guess is that when you, 96, were 18 years old, your life and skills were probably not dissected on an open forum. If they had been, and especially if the suggestions were that you...oh...say, suck, and would never correct or improve or grow, I'll bet it would have hurt and maybe adversely effected your development.

I appreciate that belief that almost everyone, including Jermaine, should be treated respectfully. You might note that I said "almost everyone" because I do not believe that those who continually disrespect others without ever a word of encouragement should be treated respectfully. Everyone says things in the heat of a moment that they might later regret. It takes a bigger person to admit this and try not to repeat it.
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Re: JJJr

Postby Motor City Sam » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:15 pm

Well said, Moose.
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