Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby 77-85Titan » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:40 pm

When asked after the game what kind of defense he was playing against the opposing guard, JJJ replied "Nunn". When asked what kind of a pass he would make if guarded 5 feet beyond the 3 PT line while trying to shoot he replied "Nunn". When asked how many times his Dad asked him to stop shooting he replied "Nunn".
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby MooseGuy1 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:40 pm

It just sucks! I hate that we lose to Oakland or anyone else. We just aren't a very good team at this point and it's a hard watch for most of us. I don't want to bicker or parse the particulars with anyone. We are losing constantly for whatever reason and I hate it.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:46 pm

77-85Titan wrote:When asked after the game what kind of defense he was playing against the opposing guard, JJJ replied "Nunn". When asked what kind of a pass he would make if guarded 5 feet beyond the 3 PT line while trying to shoot he replied "Nunn". When asked how many times his Dad asked him to stop shooting he replied "Nunn".

Though to be fair, JJJ wasn't guarding Nunn, he was guarding Neely. And he took just 2 shots in the second half, missing a three with 5:40 left, and making a three with 25 seconds remaining. So either someone told him to stop shooting, or he decided on it himself.

I don't mind criticism of JJJ--for example, his missed, off balance three pointer 5 seconds into the shot clock at about the 16:30 mark of the first half would have merited a quick benching in my opinion. But I do tire of people who seem to have some nasty, personal vendetta against this 18 year-old who is a pretty decent player, and whose criticisms are frequently if not consistently dishonest.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:53 pm

MooseGuy1 wrote:It just sucks! I hate that we lose to Oakland or anyone else. We just aren't a very good team at this point and it's a hard watch for most of us. I don't want to bicker or parse the particulars with anyone. We are losing constantly for whatever reason and I hate it.


Yeah, today was a confirmation of what all of us have known for some time. While the two wins at home gave a little hope, we then played an atrocious first half at IUPUI and now this. Give credit to the team for not giving up today, but we simply don't have the talent or coaching to compete in this league or any other. The worst thing is, I don't see any reason to believe things will get better next year. We have a few good recruits, but I don't think anyone would argue they are game changers, especially as freshmen. Chatman and Allen are very special players, but they can't win games on thier own.

I think we end up with 7 or 8 wins this season followed by a first round exit in HL tourney play. All we can do now is watch the train wreck finish and see if Garibaldi fires Vowels or if Vowels has a contract out with BA and exercises it.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby The-Dude » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:58 pm

Commissioner wrote:
77-85Titan wrote:When asked after the game what kind of defense he was playing against the opposing guard, JJJ replied "Nunn". When asked what kind of a pass he would make if guarded 5 feet beyond the 3 PT line while trying to shoot he replied "Nunn". When asked how many times his Dad asked him to stop shooting he replied "Nunn".

Though to be fair, JJJ wasn't guarding Nunn, he was guarding Neely. And he took just 2 shots in the second half, missing a three with 5:40 left, and making a three with 25 seconds remaining. So either someone told him to stop shooting, or he decided on it himself.

I don't mind criticism of JJJ--for example, his missed, off balance three pointer 5 seconds into the shot clock at about the 16:30 mark of the first half would have merited a quick benching in my opinion. But I do tire of people who seem to have some nasty, personal vendetta against this 18 year-old who is a pretty decent player, and whose criticisms are frequently if not consistently dishonest.


Commish, with all due respect, what planet ar you on? Our dismal play and dismal coaching warrants harsh criticism.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:01 pm

The-Dude wrote:
Commissioner wrote:
77-85Titan wrote:When asked after the game what kind of defense he was playing against the opposing guard, JJJ replied "Nunn". When asked what kind of a pass he would make if guarded 5 feet beyond the 3 PT line while trying to shoot he replied "Nunn". When asked how many times his Dad asked him to stop shooting he replied "Nunn".

Though to be fair, JJJ wasn't guarding Nunn, he was guarding Neely. And he took just 2 shots in the second half, missing a three with 5:40 left, and making a three with 25 seconds remaining. So either someone told him to stop shooting, or he decided on it himself.

I don't mind criticism of JJJ--for example, his missed, off balance three pointer 5 seconds into the shot clock at about the 16:30 mark of the first half would have merited a quick benching in my opinion. But I do tire of people who seem to have some nasty, personal vendetta against this 18 year-old who is a pretty decent player, and whose criticisms are frequently if not consistently dishonest.


Commish, with all due respect, what planet ar you on? Our dismal play and dismal coaching warrants harsh criticism.

As I said, Dude, it's not the harshness, it's the nastiness and the dishonesty.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby The-Dude » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:20 pm

Commish, the lines between the few dishonest nasty posters and the many disgruntled legit posters are now blurred. Things must change at the end of this season and as many have said, it should start at the top.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Titans96 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:52 pm

Commish, not sure who you were referring to in your earlier post (I really do know who you were referring to), but you really should sit back and think about the posts and realize that the comments were based on facts, not opinions. Who had the most missed shots tonight? If half of those missed shots turned into assists, could we have won? Why did McFolley, Blackshear, Long play so few minutes? Why would any player be allowed to sit on the bench, with a towel over his head, away from his teammates? Guaranteed that would never happen on a UofM, MSU, Duke, Xavier, Marquette, Villanova or even UofD High School team! I have no "vendetta against an 18 year old" and my comments are anything but "dishonest".

I know you are frustrated, we all are. But please sit back and think about this team with a clear view and think about what is wrong with this team. It certainly is not with the posts of some of the members of this forum.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby The-Dude » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:10 pm

Commish, I take back my earlier comments and I’ll also extend an apology. It took 96 seconds for those blurred lines I mentioned earlier, to become clear...
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:51 pm

Titans96 wrote:Commish, not sure who you were referring to in your earlier post (I really do know who you were referring to), but you really should sit back and think about the posts and realize that the comments were based on facts, not opinions. Who had the most missed shots tonight? If half of those missed shots turned into assists, could we have won? Why did McFolley, Blackshear, Long play so few minutes? Why would any player be allowed to sit on the bench, with a towel over his head, away from his teammates? Guaranteed that would never happen on a UofM, MSU, Duke, Xavier, Marquette, Villanova or even UofD High School team! I have no "vendetta against an 18 year old" and my comments are anything but "dishonest".

I know you are frustrated, we all are. But please sit back and think about this team with a clear view and think about what is wrong with this team. It certainly is not with the posts of some of the members of this forum.

Others can judge who has a less biased eye in thinking about this team. But please, what does any of what you put above have to do with the comment I originally responded to?

By the way, we could dissect things at length, but basically what's wrong with this team is it's the same team as last year's 8-23 team.

Chatman replaces Jenkins. Perhaps a mild improvement, although I'm not sure that Jenkins' overall effect on the team wasn't better.
Prince replaces Hogan, which is a downgrade from last year's Hogan.
JJJ replaces Robinson. Probably a slight talent upgrade, but not used as appropriately.
Tariq Jones sorta replaces Williams, but can't stay healthy/eligible.
All the other key parts are the same, and the coaches are the same.

So essentially last year's 8-23 team is rolling toward 8-23 again (well, 8-24). Blaming it on JJJ is probably wrong. Blaming it on JJJ in a perpetually skewed, nasty, and often unfair way is, well, nasty and unfair. For example, I have no idea why Long played so few minutes. Probably because, frankly, he's not all that good. Same for Blackshear. McFolley? I like McFolley a lot, but maybe he didn't play more because he's shooting 30% from 3 this year. You seem fixated on the need for good shooting. Perhaps the coaches just preferred JJJ better three point and overall shooting percentages. Perhaps they preferred JJJ's higher assist per minute average, or his lower turnover per minute average. I don't know. It's not necessarily the decision I would make if it were my team to coach, but it hardly seems irrational. Anyway, I suspect--and you correct me if I'm wrong--that JJJ didn't make the decisions not to play those three. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Was JJJ calling the shots? Is that your position?

Meanwhile, read full posts. I don't disagree with much of what you spew out. For example, in the post you're responding to, I noted that I would have benched JJJ after his second shot of the game, a hurried three that was a terrible shot. The problem is, you're so worked up about JJJ stealing your girl 20 years ago that you can't see straight when it comes to the Jacksons, and you undermine your case with your personal attacks and lack of objectivity or fairness. I'm not alone in noticing that you didn't post after JJJ scored 56 points on 19 of 39 shooting against IUPUI and YSU. Similarly, in the post I was responding to by 77-85Titan, I simply noted that his criticism of JJJ and JJ tonight appears to have been wrong. He blamed JJJ for Nunn's big night, but JJJ wasn't guarding Nunn, he was guarding Neely; and 77-85Titan complained that no one told JJJ to stop shooting, yet after missing a six shots in the first half, JJJ took just 2 shots in the second half--making a big three with 25 seconds left as the Titans tried for the miracle comeback. So someone told him to stop shooting, or he figured it out on his own. He ended up tied for 3rd on the team attempts for the night, 5th in shots per minute played.

If JJJ is as bad as you say, it should be possible to criticize him fairly, without distorting or making things up.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby udballer » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:10 am

Commissioner wrote: I like McFolley a lot, but maybe he didn't play more because he's shooting 30% from 3 this year. You seem fixated on the need for good shooting. Perhaps the coaches just preferred JJJ better three point and overall shooting


Commish,

To begin, believe me when I say that i only quote this portion of your reply to make my point... not because I disagree with your post at all or think you disagree with my take. You were spot-on in your takedown of 96.

That said, as McFolley vs JJJ had been an ongoing saga on this board, I figured I'd add to the fire. I've got no vendetta against JJJ (ie. He didn't even meet my college girlfriend, let alone steal her). That said, I'm still confounded that anyone who had watched this season play out actually thinks he is the better option of the two as far as winning THIS season. The difference between the two on defense alone is enough for me to make that decision. Also, anyone who looks at current shooting percentages as a determining factor is doing Josh a disservice. I believe that his current percentages are a direct result of his playing time and place he finds himself in this offense. As a starter getting 32 minutes, I'd fully expect his numbers to be at least as good as last year. He didn't simply forget how to shoot as a junior in college. The fact that our coaching staff benched him and his experience in favor of a frosh who hasn't shot well, tells me what I need to know about the staff and their priorities.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Titans96 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:52 am

Commissioner,

Not sure where I ever blamed JJJr for the loss, because I didn’t.

I did question why the coaching staff didn’t tell JJJr to pass the ball instead of shooting the ball. If he passed instead of leading the team in missed shots, we may have had a better chance of catching OU at the end when they fell asleep at the wheel. Also I was clearly bothered when he was sulking on the bench next to his daddy, with a towel over his head and in no way trying to be a good teammate. That is not how our leading minutes player should be handling himself. Plus his daddy allowed that to happen. If JJSr did that when Perry was coaching, Perry would have sent him to the locker room so fast.

Also, I did post praise for JJJr’s performance last week. I did not see the games but saw the stats, and he clearly had two good shooting performances helping his shooting averages go up from 32% to 36%. Obviously you are so riled up about the team and my posts that you missed them.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby JDetroitTitan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:04 am

Last year are press looked stronger at Oakland. Players are slow trapping in the corners. It seems like some of the guards are worried about getting fouls. One thing I don’t like about the Horizon league is the officiating. They are very inconsistent with calls along with calling tic tac fouls. Not to get off topic but did any on notic the Oakland players step over the free throw line when shoot their free throws at last four time and not once got called for it. The officiating has nailed us for this a number of times. Oakland runs a better offense then we do. They had a lot of good passes underneath making easy baskets. Kemp was having his players run down the clock in the second have. He was pissed when one of his players got an offensive rebound and the clock rest one of the guard shot. A quick three. Kemp was screaming at him and told him he would sit if it happen again. This game really should of been a blow out if Kemp didn’t make his players run the clock down. Oakland defense while I don’t have to say that much but Swat. That is all I could hear behind me. The ref bailed us out a couple of times on calling a foul instead of a jump ball.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby R.B.J1 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am

udballer wrote:
Commissioner wrote: I like McFolley a lot, but maybe he didn't play more because he's shooting 30% from 3 this year. You seem fixated on the need for good shooting. Perhaps the coaches just preferred JJJ better three point and overall shooting


Commish,

To begin, believe me when I say that i only quote this portion of your reply to make my point... not because I disagree with your post at all or think you disagree with my take. You were spot-on in your takedown of 96.

That said, as McFolley vs JJJ had been an ongoing saga on this board, I figured I'd add to the fire. I've got no vendetta against JJJ (ie. He didn't even meet my college girlfriend, let alone steal her). That said, I'm still confounded that anyone who had watched this season play out actually thinks he is the better option of the two as far as winning THIS season. The difference between the two on defense alone is enough for me to make that decision. Also, anyone who looks at current shooting percentages as a determining factor is doing Josh a disservice. I believe that his current percentages are a direct result of his playing time and place he finds himself in this offense. As a starter getting 32 minutes, I'd fully expect his numbers to be at least as good as last year. He didn't simply forget how to shoot as a junior in college. The fact that our coaching staff benched him and his experience in favor of a frosh who hasn't shot well, tells me what I need to know about the staff and their priorities.


I agree UDBaller, JJJr. has no conscious when it comes to shooting the ball. Former titan Tony Tolbert was also like that, but he seemed to get his shots in the flow of the offense, which ran through him in his two seasons as a titan. JJJr. does not take his shots in the flow of the offense, there have been times when the offense is clicking on all cylinders and JJJr. will break the rhythm by shooting a one legged off balance three pointer, the other team will get the rebound, fast break the ball up court get an easy basket and perhaps a basket +1. He has improved as the season has progressed. The fact that him and Kam Chatman are the only titans to start every game they've played in clearly screams nepotism. I have a feeling we will only have to deal with this issue for another 6 weeks.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:11 am

udballer wrote:
Commissioner wrote: I like McFolley a lot, but maybe he didn't play more because he's shooting 30% from 3 this year. You seem fixated on the need for good shooting. Perhaps the coaches just preferred JJJ better three point and overall shooting


Commish,

To begin, believe me when I say that i only quote this portion of your reply to make my point... not because I disagree with your post at all or think you disagree with my take. You were spot-on in your takedown of 96.

That said, as McFolley vs JJJ had been an ongoing saga on this board, I figured I'd add to the fire. I've got no vendetta against JJJ (ie. He didn't even meet my college girlfriend, let alone steal her). That said, I'm still confounded that anyone who had watched this season play out actually thinks he is the better option of the two as far as winning THIS season. The difference between the two on defense alone is enough for me to make that decision. Also, anyone who looks at current shooting percentages as a determining factor is doing Josh a disservice. I believe that his current percentages are a direct result of his playing time and place he finds himself in this offense. As a starter getting 32 minutes, I'd fully expect his numbers to be at least as good as last year. He didn't simply forget how to shoot as a junior in college. The fact that our coaching staff benched him and his experience in favor of a frosh who hasn't shot well, tells me what I need to know about the staff and their priorities.

I agree.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby StJoeUofD » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:36 am

Since I can't see the bench very often when I watch online, who is calling the plays from the bench, JJ, Chatman or someone else?
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby upbasketballfan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:35 pm

StJoeUofD wrote:Since I can't see the bench very often when I watch online, who is calling the plays from the bench, JJ, Chatman or someone else?


BA! I watch the bench and BA is the only one who controls the substitutions and plays. He does not talk to or discuss with other coaches except in a timeout before he talks to the players and from what I see and listen to there is not much input by the assistants. When 96 and the other number guys attack JJ it is way off base unless the whole game is structured before the team enters the arena. Mickey seems to have the most input as the game is playing out.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby Titans96 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:58 pm

Why is it “way off base” to attack JJSr? He is the top assistant coach who was forced on Ray and BA, and he doesn’t know how to coach! Why is he not speaking to the players on the bench during the game? Why is he only talking to his son during the game? Why does BA not trust him to provide assistance, advice, substitutions, recommendations, etc... during the game. Why is he allowing his son to sit away from his teammates, sulking with a towel over his head during the game? Where is the leadership? The entire coaching staff is a disaster. Watch top program staffs and see how real coaches interact and work as a team. There is zero skill set on the Titan staff. Hence, that’s why they all need to get dumped at year end.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby R.B.J1 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:33 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
StJoeUofD wrote:Since I can't see the bench very often when I watch online, who is calling the plays from the bench, JJ, Chatman or someone else?


BA! I watch the bench and BA is the only one who controls the substitutions and plays. He does not talk to or discuss with other coaches except in a timeout before he talks to the players and from what I see and listen to there is not much input by the assistants. When 96 and the other number guys attack JJ it is way off base unless the whole game is structured before the team enters the arena. Mickey seems to have the most input as the game is playing out.


I disagree, in the games I have attended I have observed all of the coaches huddle up and converse before they talk to the players. In my opinion, JJSr. has a lot of input. I dont see Mickey or Chatman talking much.
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Re: Oakland Grizzlies Preview and Game Thread

Postby udballer » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:21 pm

I'll take it a step further and note that I've never seen Chatman actually speak. I've only been to 4 or 5 games at Calihan this year, and watched 2 more on TV (the rest have been radio for me), but I've yet to catch Chatman open his mouth. I'm not even sure if he has teeth. :)
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