Conference RPI

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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Titans96 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Maybe PTC, but I am certain that BA and his crack staff have zero similarities to those other coaches from the past. This coaching staff couldn't win in any league or division. They are awful. The Titans are done if this staff stays.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby udballer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:10 am

ptctitan wrote:There are many examples of Hall of Fame coaches who averaged less than 10 W's per year in their first 2-3 seasons as a head coach only to improve and become very successful.


Are you sure about that comment?

I had some free time this morning and looked up the majority of records of Hall of Fame coaches. Outside of a couple who coached in the 1920's and played about 14 games per season, I couldn't find any that matched this description.

If those are the Hall of Fame coaches that you're referencing, I'd simply state that going 9-7 your first couple of years coaching is not the same as going 8-24.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Titans96 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:16 am

Titans96 wrote:Well, our amazing Titans now sit with the proud RPI ranking of #315! Who knows how much further we will fall?

It was just 1 year ago when BA lead our amazing Titans to a record low RPI ranking of #317, so I guess we improved over last year!

I find it interesting that PTC decided to compare BA and his crack coaching staff to Homer Drew in his early years. He must have been mistaken because BA is more like Homer Simpson.

Also, I think Vowels will claim his objective for BA's team this year was to improve their RPI and not get to a .500 record this year. I guess, mission accomplished! The Titan faithful are so proud of this team and BA's coaching skills that many are calling for his return next year so we can get our RPI to #313.

Seriously, I have to hope the entire coaching staff and AD team get the boot in March, or its a clear sign that the Titans will be moving to D3.


Well, so much for having a better RPI compared to last year. The Titans now sit proudly at RPI #318 and have passed the prior BA program record of RPI #317 last year. Can it get worse?

So now what is our esteemed AD supposed to do when BA and his crack staff have performed in every scenario worse this year compared to last year? Wasn’t he expecting a .500 record this year? Maybe he will claim that this is exactly what he expected. Maybe he will use some of PTC’s lines about it being Ray’s fault or 36 years of neglect.

Vowels and BA, along with their crack staffs have had plenty of time to get the program better than prior years, but they have completely failed. No, not an “incomplete” like BA claimed, but absolute failure and dumpster fire. Vowels and BA must go.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:45 am

Truth bomb dropped by 96. Vowels can't fire BA, as he would need approval from Garibaldi and the board to do something with such a price tag. We will need to see what happens in the near future. The BA issue is more complicated because of the contract issue. But, if Garibaldi doesn't fire Vowels by the end of the month then I sincerely worry about the future of D1 athletics at Detroit Mercy.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby TitanTarHeel » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:24 am

We aren't going D3. Period.

Yes, there's a chance, there's a chance of anything I suppose. But we just are not going D3, its a low probability scenario. I don't like how its caught fire as a legit possibility on the forum and on so many threads.

Do things look good with our hoops/athletics, eh not at all. Vowels needs to go ASAP.

We aren't on the cusp of D3. I think its wrong and irresponsible for any of us to continuing be spreading that out there, even if we are quite frustrated with our rock bottom status right now.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Titans96 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:50 pm

TarHeel, I’m not sure how you can make a statement like that. We are absolutely in a situation where D3 is a viable option for UDM. The current D1 programs at UDM are costing the university easily $4 million + per year with zero positive results. The university isn’t getting large donor funds to support this continual drain from the athletic department and the clear lack of success of the basketball program shows no positive progression which will continue to lead to large losses and no new donations from proud alumni who would love to support a “successful” basketball program.

You only need to look at D3 programs and see that they are more successful while still generating donations from alumni and running more cost effective athletic programs. For example look at Albion, Kalamazoo, Hope, Adrian, even our fellow Jesuit school in Cleveland John Carroll who has a hugely successful athletic program and generates far more donations from alumni for their athletic program than UDM.

D3 programs don’t fund scholarships to players. They don’t pay silly amounts of money to terrible coaching staffs, yet many of these programs have more successful athletic programs and better facilities than UDM. Don’t think for one second that the UDM Board doesn’t realize this. We are at a point in UDM’s history where the university can’t continue with this drain from the athletic department, and change needs to happen now. If we continue with Vowels/BA trajectory, the decision will be very easy for the UDM Board.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:57 pm

I was going to respond to TarHeel but 96 absolutely nailed it.

https://youtu.be/I983LHULG5U
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby uofdfan1983 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:20 pm

96, Tac and anyone else who thinks dropping from Div I is a possibility in the near future: talk to Dr. Garibaldi and you will see why you are wrong. I don't think he's going anywhere, and our Board will not overrule him on this matter. So it is NOT a realistic option at this time unless something were to happen to Garibaldi.

So much of what I read here comes from hypothetical analysis of our situation. We have to be like the websites and TV announcers who yell the loudest, and make the most outrageous comments in an effort to be heard; in an effort to improve our "ratings". Is that the purpose of this Board?

If you don't live in town and see Dr. Garibaldi at most basketball games, I'm sorry. If you never get a chance to talk to him about the University and how Athletics fits into his overall vision, again I'm sorry. I guess you are just going to have to trust people like me who do have those opportunities.

FACT: both of our basketball teams sucked this year
FACT: BA and staff did not do a good job
NOT A FACT: ergo we are dropping to Div II or III shortly
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Commissioner » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:43 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:I was going to respond to TarHeel but 96 absolutely nailed it.

https://youtu.be/I983LHULG5U

What's the point of all this D-III discussion? Is the argument that, until and unless D-III status looms, we can't justify firing the coaching staff and exacting revenge on JJ for whatever he did to Titans96 back in the 90s? (I used to think he stole Titans96's girl, but now I'm pretty sure he gave Titans96 a wedgie in the locker room. Maybe it was both). Personally, I have higher standards--I'm willing to fire coaches long before D-III looms.

A few posters here seem almost gleeful at the prospect. Of course, no one actually in a position of authority at the university it talking D-III. Given how often Titans96 is wrong (but don't worry, except for his opinions on JJ, JJJ, and Vowels, in a couple days he'll likely post the opposite of what he said earlier, so he gets his accuracy rate up to near 50% and then does a lot of "I told you sos"), and how little most of us seem to value his opinion, he's seems like one of those guys who just thinks, "well, I say it louder and with more alarm." If you can get everyone alarmed enough, they tend to quit thinking rationally.

Or perhaps Titans96 just has a bit of a Cassandra complex. If you make enough really dire predictions, one of them just might come true, and if everyone forgets all the other nonsense you spouted, you can claim to be a bit of a prophet. You know--you predict that within a decade the U.S. will succumb to a) a fascist dictatorship in which women are forced to have sex but only for procreation; b) a zombie apocalypse; c) the ravages of global warming, as depicted in "The Day After Tomorrow" (if you haven't seen it, it's one of the greatest films ever--a U.S. Vice President who looks suspiciously like Dick Cheney gives a cartoonish speech about global warming, which apparently triggers tidal waves, 35 or so feet of snow to fall on the northern two-thirds of the U.S. in the next 96 hours, and temperatures so cold you freeze instantly if you walk outside); or d) a nuclear holocaust in which North Korea and Iran obliterate the United States. It's all so stupid that nobody really pays attention, but if any one of them actually happens, you can spend the short remainder of your miserable life dodging zombies while saying "told ya! TOLD YA! You shoulda listened to me!"

Anyway, I'm more interested in being successful at D-I. Since that necessarily encompasses a higher standard of performance than merely not falling to D-III, I don't quite get the obsession a few have with D-III status.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:09 pm

According to Bloomberg, Garibaldi earned his undergrad degree in '73. So, he's roughly 67 years old? Even if Garibaldi is very pro D1, he won't be at the helm forever. Odds are he will be long gone before the Titans MBB becomes tourney caliber again. As 96 noted, trustees act in the best interest of the university. If the team isn't playing better and more people aren't attending games soon, it wouldn't be irrational at all for the trustees to conclude that D1 athletics are a losing endeavor for the school. In fact, I'd submit that it might get to a point where the only responsible decision in a fiduciary sense is to let go of D1 athletics. Just why are we immune from the threat of being forced to give up the expense of D1 sports? Because we have a large basketball arena than can hold 8,000 people? When only 200 people show up for the games, that becomes more of a burden than an asset. Because we have a "great basketball legacy" to protect? Those teams from the 70s and 90s are becoming ancient history and the success from the Ray Jr days is fading fast because of the current failures.

I don't agree with everything 96 says. All I'm saying is, in my opinion, if some things don't change for the better very fast, I have concerns about the school continuing D1 athletics. As to the notion that talking about such things damages the program, I think NOT saying them or putting your heads in the sand is more damaging. We desperately need a new AD. Like, today. 96 didn't damage this program with his keyboard. Vowels did that, we we paid him good money for it.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby Titans96 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:37 pm

Tom, I have spoken with Dr. Garabaldi on numerous occasions and know that he is a smart man and one not to make quick decisions on most matters. However, he is also realistic and would prefer to stay D1, but clearly understands the challenges when we have a school that can’t afford such extravagant losing programs. He also knows that the athletic programs in their current state are not worthy of the expenses.

Commissioner, I’m starting to wonder why you have a fixation on me. If all you can do is try to ridicule someone, it must be you that has the issues.

Are we going D3 next year? Highly doubtful. Are we going D3 in the next 3-5 years? Likely if we don’t fix the problems with the athletic department and the “dying on the vine” basketball program.

The Board will make the decision on the future of the D1 vs. D3 issue. You can rest assured, if we stay in our current status (which is very likely if Vowels/BA stay around) we will be D3 in the next 3-5 years. Just realize, UDM’s endowment and Athletic fund raising monies are significantly lower than all those D3 programs I listed earlier. That’s right, ALL OF THEM! Also, fellow Jesuit school John Carroll has more athletes participating on more athletic teams in better facilities than UDM. Is UDM’s mission to stay D1 or to educate and help young students become better people for society?

I would hope we stay D1 and turn around the university. But that will not happen with Vowels/BA at the helm. And it will certainly not happen with such low funds in the endowment and athletic program fund.
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby TitanTarHeel » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:35 am

My statement was...we are not going D3 any time soon. Period. I'l re-state that yes its a potential outcome, just as its a potential outcome that we'll be in the Big East in 3 years. Each has a chance of occurring but they are both low probability at this point. Remote probability in fact.

I do agree that Vowels has to go. The plummeting in Athletics is evident. And true, if we plummet at his pace for the next 3-5 years than of course all of athletics would disappear. But...

My 'likely scenario'...At some point we likely hit the floor (this year or next year). We sweep out Vowels. The mens and women's teams show an increase in performance or we have 2 new coaches. In 3-5 years we are in the mediocre middle of the Horizon League (4th place finishes). Yes, I know its not the most aspirational thing but to me its the likely scenario. A longer term goal (5-8 yrs) has has consistently in the Top 3. OU, NKU and Wright have that designation so we ought to aspire to be there with them or displace one of them.

I don't have my head in the sand (look i've already said its a possibility even if its remote). I'm with Commish as I don't see why we (Tact and 96) are pounding the topic. We could digress into all sorts of low probability events all day long around here I suppose (and we do!) but I think its wrong and take a misunderstanding of how the President and how the Board views athletics and staying D1.

And, I do think it can be damaging to be honest. The uninformed fan/alum/recruit googles 'Detroit Titan Basketball' and this forum comes up as a top result. They start clicking and reading and thinking 'gee I don't know if this is for me, this school seems to be going D3 soon'. When that's just patently false. THAT's my reasoning for not liking the continued discussion of the move, and now you know :)
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Re: Conference RPI

Postby dennycrane » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:16 am

Heel, you should take a look, if you haven't already, at rogobob's post under the title End of 2017-18 BA. He presents, in two paragraphs, a thoughtful, non-emotional picture of the cost-cutting campaign at the University and how it could impact athletics. Three years is not a long time. Within that period, if the terrible situation we have now in men's basketball isn't fixed, the funding could run out. Quite literally, because of a potential buyout, we cannot afford to let BA go, but we also cannot afford not to. It is a very difficult dilemma.
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