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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby NC Titan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:16 am

Titans96 wrote:Yes, 4 key players! Where does the improvement come from next year? Remember, we were close to the worst team in the NCAA in defense, and one of the 25 worst teams in the NCAA overall. Please educate me on where the improvements will come from to help us improve?


So you're saying Hogan was a key to the Titans this year? And that IJones was a key contributor? Hogan played in barely half the games and in those games played less than half the minutes. Jones scored 23 points and 21 rebounds all season.

I love Hogan -- for what he did three years. But his senior season was a bust, hardly a key contributor. I like Jones, thought he was a good gamble that didn't pay off.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Titans96 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:40 am

Just answer my question. Where does the improvement come from next year? You want to divert the real questions to something that means nothing. Who is going to improve the defense next year? Where are the assists going to come from? Where are the 8 extra wins going to come from? You have no answers. Either do I. That is why they will be worse next year than this year.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby titanmike » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:11 am

Titans96 wrote:Tacitus is being extremely kind. With 5-8 key returning players, where is the defense going to come from? Where are the assists going to come from? Remember, we are losing 4 key seniors. Are Nelson, Blackshear and Jones going to be so powerful to overcome the disastrous season we had this year? I think the real answer is no chance in hell. I am sad to think that 24 losses may be a best case scenario next year. This team and coaching staff has "train wreck" written all over them. Who will replace what went away? Who will add to the defense from what we already had? Nothing good comes from this analysis. We are a dumpster fire in the works, and gasoline is being poured onto the fire daily.


The only gasoline poured onto the fire is your uninformed analysis of what has occurred in the past year. The team was toxic from the coaches down to the players. They poisoned themselves. Change is coming soon.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby NC Titan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:59 am

Titans96 wrote:Just answer my question. Where does the improvement come from next year? You want to divert the real questions to something that means nothing. Who is going to improve the defense next year? Where are the assists going to come from? Where are the 8 extra wins going to come from? You have no answers. Either do I. That is why they will be worse next year than this year.


Calm down, '96. I agreed with you that we need help next year. I said that both Black and Prince will be missed, and I said:

But, yes, we still need a big man who can contribute on both ends of the floor -- especially on D.


That said, I questioned your comment about losing four key players. Replacing IJones' point-per-game won't be that difficult. As far as Hogan this past season, how difficult is it to replace a guy in street clothes on the bench? I'm not dissing either player, just stating that neither was a major contributor in 2017-18.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby HSScout1 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:09 am

titanmike wrote:The only gasoline poured onto the fire is your uninformed analysis of what has occurred in the past year. The team was toxic from the coaches down to the players. They poisoned themselves. Change is coming soon.


Care to elaborate? I don't want to get my hopes up, but a tiny statement like this from an informed poster carries a lot of weight with me.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby R.B.J1 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:18 am

HSScout1 wrote:
titanmike wrote:The only gasoline poured onto the fire is your uninformed analysis of what has occurred in the past year. The team was toxic from the coaches down to the players. They poisoned themselves. Change is coming soon.


Care to elaborate? I don't want to get my hopes up, but a tiny statement like this from an informed poster carries a lot of weight with me.


I hope so. Quite a few changes need to take place. The 2017-2018 team was the most selfish titan team I have ever seen. That includes the Chase Simon and Chris Blake team.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Titans96 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:23 am

Since I am so "uninformed", can someone on this Board please educate me on how the Titans will replace these 4 players who graduated?

For your information, these 4 players (who many believe added little value to the team) represented between 22.6% to 26.5% of the team totals in Minutes Played, Rebounds, Assists, Points Scored and Steals and 44.3% of all Blocks this past year.

In order for the Titans to replace these 4 players, these are the numbers someone will have to replace next year (in a 32 game season):
Minutes = 51.72/game (only 40 minutes in a game)
Rebounds = 9.2/game
Assists = 3.4/game
Points = 18.4/game
Steals = 1.5/game
Blocks = 1.2/game

It looks like we need to find a LeBron James out there. And even if we find that person to achieve those numbers, we are still the same team we had last season because that is just replacing what we lost. So not only do we need to find a LeBron James, the rest of the team will need to have dramatically improved season stats to improve our record versus this past season.

Please educate me if I am missing something here?
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby TitanTarHeel » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:54 am

I just don't get the antagonism 96. You are itchin' for a fight for a fight for some reason. As far as I can tell there isn't any major disagreement on the board yet you are trying to get into some board battle. No one is 'dodging questions' as if this is some sort of major political race. NCT is among the most respectable gents on the board here and you are trying to call him out. Just relax, I think we are all on the same side here. Sheesh.

No one thinks we are going to win the HL next year or even be in the top 3. Everyone is agreeing we need more beef up front. The returning players should improve, because, well, that's what guys do year over year.

Beyond that it ought to be a merely nitpick and fun banter on here amongst fellow basketball and Titan fans.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby titanmike » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:15 am

Titans96 wrote:Since I am so "uninformed", can someone on this Board please educate me on how the Titans will replace these 4 players who graduated?

For your information, these 4 players (who many believe added little value to the team) represented between 22.6% to 26.5% of the team totals in Minutes Played, Rebounds, Assists, Points Scored and Steals and 44.3% of all Blocks this past year.

In order for the Titans to replace these 4 players, these are the numbers someone will have to replace next year (in a 32 game season):
Minutes = 51.72/game (only 40 minutes in a game)
Rebounds = 9.2/game
Assists = 3.4/game
Points = 18.4/game
Steals = 1.5/game
Blocks = 1.2/game

It looks like we need to find a LeBron James out there. And even if we find that person to achieve those numbers, we are still the same team we had last season because that is just replacing what we lost. So not only do we need to find a LeBron James, the rest of the team will need to have dramatically improved season stats to improve our record versus this past season.

Please educate me if I am missing something here?


Your education begins by reminding you that you don't coach the team, you are not responsible for recruiting, decisions of hiring and firing etc.. You are a fan or not a fan. Sweeping changes will be made regardless of who initiates that change. These changes may not be all of what I want to see, but I do think they will in fact help end the toxic environment that persisted in many areas.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby udballer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:36 am

Oudrummer wrote:Assuming everyone plays that’s expected to and no ridiculous injuries, I am nowhere near as worried about next year as some. No need to bog down your board with OU future chatter. If anyone is actually interested there’s a discussion on our board about it. Assuming you’re not, we’ve ran this rivalry up until now. Now both teams have some work to do to make sure we’re not battling in the HL basement.


Allow me for a second to pretend to act like a Michigan Wolverine fan... which makes me sick to my stomach.

Huh? You've ran the rivalry? Detroit owns this rivalry 13-9, fool! Scoreboard. :D
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby udballer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:14 pm

titanmike wrote:Sweeping changes will be made regardless of who initiates that change. These changes may not be all of what I want to see, but I do think they will in fact help end the toxic environment that persisted in many areas.


I now have a glimmer of hope that things will start to turn back around.

Mike,

As you are obviously a highly trusted member of the Titan family... and can get the ears of the right people... please send someone up to Grand Blanc to test the interest of Michael Thomas of being head coach of this team. I don't want to be upset with another hire, so let's just get this right and inject some happiness into the fan base. Nobody will be able to argue with the performance moving forward. :)
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:23 pm

People trash 96 a lot. Sometimes maybe it's warranted. His trashing of the program is nonstop, and people say that does damage to the program. I'll acknowledge that if this board is totally negative, then it might turn off other fans, recruits, and donors. But, his trashing is also pretty justified. If people don't yell and cause a fuss, then we probably won't see change. Sure, you might say 96 could call or write the university. Most people on this board have repeatedly acknowledged that those comments always fall on deaf ears. I've had more than one PM conversation with people on this board about utter lack of respect or even a response when trying to inquire or engage 6 Mile. That said, I feel the frustration by 96, but also many others.

If we don't make a stink, why should we expect change? I'm open to the argument that we can't afford to fire BA. Someone else brilliantly commented recently that we can't afford to keep him and we can't afford to fire him. But Vowels is a different story. We absolutely need to make a change with the AD position ASAP. And we can't afford to make a bad hire. If Vowels is still on the payroll come May, I'll be truly embarrassed for all of us.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby titandave » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:37 pm

NC Titan wrote:Although Long is a shot-blocker he is an outside player, a wing at best. Hightower is 6-foot-7 and 215 (same height and 30 pounds heavier than Nelson) and maybe he can help out at forward.

From my perspective, Cole Long's development over the past season was impressive, he appears to have an excellent work ethic and a fairly high basketball IQ. With proper coaching, I believe he can develop into an effective stretch four.

Based on Cory Hightower's performance in his senior year of high school, I'm glad we signed him. :) Cory is averaging a double-double on a Class 7A (highest level in Georgia) team that's 25-6 and playing in the semi-final game of the state championship on Saturday. I'm guessing he's a role player in his Freshman year, however, if he's effective playing in the paint, we may see him in the rotation.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby titanmike » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:People trash 96 a lot. Sometimes maybe it's warranted. His trashing of the program is nonstop, and people say that does damage to the program. I'll acknowledge that if this board is totally negative, then it might turn off other fans, recruits, and donors. But, his trashing is also pretty justified. If people don't yell and cause a fuss, then we probably won't see change. Sure, you might say 96 could call or write the university. Most people on this board have repeatedly acknowledged that those comments always fall on deaf ears. I've had more than one PM conversation with people on this board about utter lack of respect or even a response when trying to inquire or engage 6 Mile. That said, I feel the frustration by 96, but also many others.

If we don't make a stink, why should we expect change? I'm open to the argument that we can't afford to fire BA. Someone else brilliantly commented recently that we can't afford to keep him and we can't afford to fire him. But Vowels is a different story. We absolutely need to make a change with the AD position ASAP. And we can't afford to make a bad hire. If Vowels is still on the payroll come May, I'll be truly embarrassed for all of us.


Ok, so yes some comments are warranted yes. I don't disagree with that. But acting the like the boy who cried wolf, wont get results. I make a stink, :lol: :lol: after a few good beers and brats......I make a stink, but I do it respectfully. I just came from a Change Management presentation, change begins from within. A culture change is going on, no everyone bought in, but I am confident they will. If they don't, I will be the first to say I am wrong.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby NC Titan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:04 pm

Titans96 wrote:Please educate me if I am missing something here?


Lumping the stats of four players into one aggregate and saying we'll miss all four is ... well, not representative of a Jesuit education.

When Ralph Sampson graduated from Virginia, he was one of two students to graduate in his major. Ralph got a contract for something like $500,000 per year (yes, it was a looooong time ago) and the other grad in that major got a job for something like $20,000. The joke at UVa was that graduates in that program had an average starting salary of $260,000 a year.

In the words of Titan96, "Please educate me." OK, consider that done.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Commissioner » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:06 pm

Titans96 wrote:Since I am so "uninformed", can someone on this Board please educate me on how the Titans will replace these 4 players who graduated?

For your information, these 4 players (who many believe added little value to the team) represented between 22.6% to 26.5% of the team totals in Minutes Played, Rebounds, Assists, Points Scored and Steals and 44.3% of all Blocks this past year.

In order for the Titans to replace these 4 players, these are the numbers someone will have to replace next year (in a 32 game season):
Minutes = 51.72/game (only 40 minutes in a game)
Rebounds = 9.2/game
Assists = 3.4/game
Points = 18.4/game
Steals = 1.5/game
Blocks = 1.2/game

It looks like we need to find a LeBron James out there. And even if we find that person to achieve those numbers, we are still the same team we had last season because that is just replacing what we lost. So not only do we need to find a LeBron James, the rest of the team will need to have dramatically improved season stats to improve our record versus this past season.

Please educate me if I am missing something here?

Three rules of life:
Don't pee into the wind
Don't get into a land war in Asia
Don't challenge the Commish to a statistics duel

The Departing seniors take with them 25.7% of total minutes, 23.3 percent of points, and 26.55 of rebounds.
That means the Titans return:
Minutes: 74.3%
Points: 76.7%
Rebounds: 73.5%

These are actually higher percentages than normal for a team to be returning. For example, for this year, the Titans returned just 68.7% of minutes, 73.0% of points, and 57.9% of rebounds. And that was high. Eventual tournament champ Wright State began this year returning just 53.2% of minutes, 44.1% of scoring, and 62.0% of rebounds. Tournament runner-up CSU returned 63.0% of minutes, 52.8% of scoring, and 63.2% of rebounds. At the bottom end of the conference, Green Bay this year returned just 20.9% of minutes, 18.4% of points, and 17.4% of rebounds.

Other players will play minutes, and score points, and get rebounds.

Now, as NCTitan and Tarheel point out, this doesn't mean the Titans will be good next year. I don't think anyone is looking forward to next season, or thinking we will be good. But perspective-free, stupid analysis gets us nowhere. Will Cory Hightower contribute as much or more as Isaiah Jones? I think so. Will Adrian Nelson equal the production of Dre Black? I don't know, but I think it is very possible (of course, they play different positions, but you wanted to just aggregate numbers so we'll go with that). Will whatever juco we bring in equal Jaleel Hogan? I'm afraid so, given how little Jaleel contributed. Will anyone fill the void of Prince? That's the toughest one. But there's definitely that possibility. Maybe another juco. Maybe Long. Maybe some combination. After all, look at Prince himself--from his sophomore to junior seasons at Long Beach he upped his minutes by 35.6%, his points by 45.3%, and his rebounds by 89.5%.

Or look at it this way: Hogan and I. Jones combined averaged less than 13 minutes and 5 points per game. You mean to say we can't replace that? That's not serious.

No, we won't be good. But if we don't seriously analyze the problems, we won't get better either.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Titans96 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:21 pm

It looks like you just proved my point. It is extremely unlikely that the Titans will be able to replace the lost stats from the 4 seniors leaving.

By the way, Jones was the 2nd leading shot blocker on the team this year even thought he barely played. Also, Hogan was the 7th leading point scorer on the team even though he played 17 games.

Plus, you failed to point out that our coaching staff is terrible at recruiting and coaching. So the likelihood of getting those high performance JUCO’s is slim to none. Plus, the coaches have a tendency to have their existing players perform at a worse level than the prior season. So we have that to look forward to.

Oh, I also forgot to mention how terrible the defense has gotten since BA/JJSr arrived on the scene.

It seems like an 8-24 season may not be achievable next season.
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Commissioner » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:44 pm

Titans96 wrote:It looks like you just proved my point. It is extremely unlikely that the Titans will be able to replace the lost stats from the 4 seniors leaving.

By the way, Jones was the 2nd leading shot blocker on the team this year even thought he barely played. Also, Hogan was the 7th leading point scorer on the team even though he played 17 games.

Plus, you failed to point out that our coaching staff is terrible at recruiting and coaching. So the likelihood of getting those high performance JUCO’s is slim to none. Plus, the coaches have a tendency to have their existing players perform at a worse level than the prior season. So we have that to look forward to.

Oh, I also forgot to mention how terrible the defense has gotten since BA/JJSr arrived on the scene.

It seems like an 8-24 season may not be achievable next season.

Yes, but don't you agree that JJJ will improve and make up much of the difference?
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:57 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Oakland Board...

Postby Titans96 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:22 pm

Commissioner wrote:
Titans96 wrote:It looks like you just proved my point. It is extremely unlikely that the Titans will be able to replace the lost stats from the 4 seniors leaving.

By the way, Jones was the 2nd leading shot blocker on the team this year even thought he barely played. Also, Hogan was the 7th leading point scorer on the team even though he played 17 games.

Plus, you failed to point out that our coaching staff is terrible at recruiting and coaching. So the likelihood of getting those high performance JUCO’s is slim to none. Plus, the coaches have a tendency to have their existing players perform at a worse level than the prior season. So we have that to look forward to.

Oh, I also forgot to mention how terrible the defense has gotten since BA/JJSr arrived on the scene.

It seems like an 8-24 season may not be achievable next season.

Yes, but don't you agree that JJJ will improve and make up much of the difference?



I doubt JJJr will be able to make up the difference, but we can all be certain that he will absolutely jack up enough shots in an effort to get the missing points. At his shooting percentage he will be taking 18 more 3 point attempts per game. Can’t wait!
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