Official Airing of Grievances Thread

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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:47 pm

baller, I had the same reaction as you. Can't resist:
http://www.tzr.io/yarn-clip/58f4fab9-9e ... 95ecb8abe0
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby udballer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:38 pm

MooseGuy1 wrote:
udballer wrote:
uofdfan1983 wrote: I do know that BA chose to keep JJ and that it was a logical decision; someone from the previous regime is usually kept


Is that a true statement? I don't pay extra special attention to coaching changes, but it seems hard to believe. When BA is relieved of his duties, I certainly hope the next guy doesn't keep someone from this staff around. Well, maybe Mickey.

uofdfan1983 wrote:Unlike others here who hide in anonymity, I try to be transparent. I believe Hammond is too nice to posters on this Board. He should make you guys identify yourselves. People know who Mik2008 is, people know who TitanMac is. That's the way it should be. I can't post everything I think I know but I want to inform when I can. I am upset that we stink and I let it be known every game when I see a crappy performance. Doesn't mean that I quit on the Program or go 100% negative. I search for the truth and hope the necessary changes are being made. I believe they are.


I don't think many people on this board are trying to hide in anonymity, so I'm not sure where that came from, exactly. I've posted on several message boards throughout the years and 99% old the message board world is anonymous, probably for a good reason.

I'll remain "anonymous" though I'm quite sure I've given plenty of info as to who I am if anyone wanted to talk with me about Titan sports. I'm nearly 40 years old and I'm sitting at most home games with a 6 year old kid (and sometimes my wife) in the upper bowl. Being that there are only about 87 people total in the upper bowl, I'm easy to find. :D


Sometimes the 6 year olds are your wife?!!!!


Good one, Moose. I will confirm that my wife is "of age", though she will remain anonymous... this being a message board and all. ;)
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby MooseGuy1 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:18 pm

Whoo! That's a relief. I'll sleep better tonight. :D
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby titanmike » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:32 am

udballer wrote:It is not my intent to debate with PTC on this thread... but I disagree with so much of this I need to post.

ptctitan wrote:For example, no one has heard publicly the complete set of facts surrounding the comments that led to BA's leave of absence. We have only heard the side of the story put forth by the player's parents and their lawyer. What prompted BA's profane reply? We don't know. Maybe the player's words or actions merited a strong rebuke. If the incident involved a response that was merited but unacceptably profane, then that is a much different situation than the one portrayed in the media.


Merited a strong rebuke? How about a good "hit the showers" and subsequent benching? There was no excuse for "SMD" and it surely isn't warranted in any case, regardless of the other side of the story. "SMD" itself has never been argued... which is plenty disgusting in its own right. For those who argue that it is commonplace for a 42 year old coach to say to a RS Junior in college, I simply disagree.

ptctitan wrote:As to the PG situation, I have stated my opinion. I recall that it took Dennis Boyd until very late in his junior year before he began to play consistently well. Different players take different paths to achieving their maximum potential. Did JJJ shoot us out of several games? Yes. Did he help us win other games? Yes. Did he keep us close in other games? Yes. Is Josh a better PG than JJJ? I don't think so. And part of my opinion is informed by the fact that Josh was not the PG on the championship Western HS team. Brailen Neeley was. Should Josh play significant minutes in each game? Yes. I happen to think that Josh is better at 2-guard or combo guard. Were our W-L results any better when JJJ did not start after his injury at NKU? The W-L percentage was the same.


I agree that JJJ shot us out of several games and I also agree that he helped us win "other games". The issue is that we were 8-24, so you need to look at those two statements as a weighted average. Helping us beat Houston Baptist (who sucks, by the way) in OT does not wash out 15 games full of selfish play.

Is Josh a better PG than JJJ this season? Absolutely. And the part of your opinion regarding Detroit Western International just flat-out doesn't make any sense. Neely was a mainstay on that team and can only play PG, hence he was the point guard. Your argument is like stating that because Mateen Cleaves was not the starting PG on Flint Northern when they won the state title (that honor went to Torrey Gist), that somehow correlates to JJJ being a better PG than Cleaves... which is ridiculous. In addition, if Neely were on the Titans this past season... he also would have been a better PG option than JJJ. Fact is that JJJ's strengths have always been in his ability to score. He is a good ball handler, but also more of a SG and not a true PG. Problem is that he's about 5'7" and completely ineffective as a SG at this level... so he needs to be in at PG. My issue (as well as the general board consensus outside of yourself) is simply that he should have been out there as a backup PG about 15-20 minutes per game until he proved that he can be consistently good at this level... which he has yet to show. There is nothing wrong with earning time... and please don't respond with your canned "he must have earned the time in practice" response. If practice doesn't translate to the actual games, who cares?

ptctitan wrote:Also, I think a major cause of the unacceptably poor W-L record is simply the components of the roster. Since NJ graduated, we have lacked a bona fide post player, a PG, and length at guard and on the wings. Because we are smaller, we must double the opponents' post more frequently than the better teams. That leaves uncontested outside shots available because one perimeter player is doubling the post. And then, we are running a 6 foot guard at them instead of a 6'4" to 6'7" defender. It takes more than 2 recruiting classes to change that equation.


Agreed we lack a bona fide post player, and (so far) through 3 BA/JJ/Canaan recruiting cycles... we still lack a bona fide post player.

Agree we lack a true PG, and (so far) through 3 BA/JJ/Canaan recruiting cycles... we still lack a true PG. Check that, we were given Dre Black. No disrespect to Dre, but he is not the recipe for competing in any D1 conference.

The rest of your post makes total sense (on paper) as to why we could potentially give up some of the worst outside shooting percentages in D1 athletics. Unfortunately, being at a lot of the games, I again have to disagree. The putrid defense did not appear to be specific to someone always being caught double-teaming a post player. The defensive issues ran much deeper than that. The fact that we are "running a 6 foot guard at them" also does not appear to have been addressed through the first three recruiting cycles.

ptctitan wrote:
Since we do not know firsthand what issues are facing this team, none of our opinions, including mine, are fully informed. Also, since the same leadership that hired Vowels and BA remains in charge of hiring their replacements, if their (Vowels and BA) lack of competence is the cause of the poor W-L records of the men's BB team this year, then I do not have a lot of confidence that the same group of trustees would hire someone better. In general, it is always bad to make wholesale leadership changes if the issue is an internal one on the team. And if the issue is one of culture change as implied by titanmike, it can be addressed by other less disruptive means. That should be the preferred solution over a wholesale changing of the guard. This is true even if the university faced no monetary issues.


I prefer a wholesale leadership change, at least at the Vowels and coaching staff levels. The "promise" that BA offered (at least as I recall) was focused on (1) selling the program to potential recruits and (2) being an ambassador of the university. Between hollow recruiting classes (outside of staff blood relations) and the SMD suspension, he does not even receive a passing grade where he was expected to excel. That's scary. Add in the assumed deficiency (which was probably accurate) regarding in-game coaching ability and his tenure has been a major failure.

I'm confident that I'll cut and paste this post following his 15-17 season next year before we head into year 4 of this leadership.


SMD was never said.
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby titanmike » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:51 am

Titans96 wrote:Tom, it is you that is tiresome. Plus, it's not "your" University, it is "our" University. You are not the King! "Dilly, Dilly!"

I do want to dig deeper into your comment about "The coaches were not all on the same page and players chose sides". What the hell is that all about? Isn't BA the Head Coach, and why would the other coaches not be step in step with the head coach - he is their boss (one would think)? I know the answer. It's because your buddy Vowels forced your buddy JJSr onto Ray, and JJSr was also forced onto BA. I know enough to be dangerous too Tom! No one except you and Vowels want JJSr anywhere near this program, and he is the reason there is discord between the coaches. He is also the reason players are choosing sides. He is also the reason JJJr is allowed to run free without being benched (for the obvious reason that he is terrible).

The "rift in the team" is the result of poor AD leadership and an AD listening to the wrong people when making decisions about his staff.

Let's call it as it is, and stop trying to play your agenda off on this board. And yes, D3 is an option if the program continues to lose all support from the fans and the alumni. Again, I know enough to be dangerous too! Remember when you and others were complaining about Ray and the poor attendance numbers when we were still averaging above 2,000 people per game? I do, look it up. I have not heard your complaints now when we are maybe at 1,000 fans and more likely 600 fans/game.

What kind of damn freak show is going on with this program? Why can't BA run a program without having to worry about his assistant coaches back-stabbing him?


96, you are partially correct, I believe that Sr was forced on Ray, however you are incorrect to say he was forced on BA. I also think valid points to consider regarding what you say about JJSr.
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:46 am

Mike, if SMD was never said, do you know what transpired to warrant a 7 game suspension (I realize it was never officially a suspension)?

If you do know what happened, would you classify it as something we should all just forget about and move on from? My main problem with BA is that the overall performance of the team is far below any standard we should have. If, in your judgment, you think we should let it go, I think most people on this board would do so.
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby titanmike » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:16 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:Mike, if SMD was never said, do you know what transpired to warrant a 7 game suspension (I realize it was never officially a suspension)?

If you do know what happened, would you classify it as something we should all just forget about and move on from? My main problem with BA is that the overall performance of the team is far below any standard we should have. If, in your judgment, you think we should let it go, I think most people on this board would do so.


Something less innocuous was said, which I suppose is subjective. Never really a suspension is accurate. Personally I would of forgotten about it and moved on.
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby udballer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:13 pm

titanmike wrote:less innocuous


This is similar to a double-negative. I believe that, in code, Mike is telling us what was actually said was much worse than SMD.

Just joking a bit, Mike. :)

If there was no "SMD", and what was said was indeed innocuous... there should have been no 7-game absence of BA. Either way, the program and leadership look pretty bad allowing it to play out the way it did.
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby titanmike » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:40 pm

udballer wrote:
titanmike wrote:less innocuous


This is similar to a double-negative. I believe that, in code, Mike is telling us what was actually said was much worse than SMD.

Just joking a bit, Mike. :)

If there was no "SMD", and what was said was indeed innocuous... there should have been no 7-game absence of BA. Either way, the program and leadership look pretty bad allowing it to play out the way it did.


The last statement is accurate.
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby udballer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:42 pm

titanmike wrote:
udballer wrote:
titanmike wrote:less innocuous


This is similar to a double-negative. I believe that, in code, Mike is telling us what was actually said was much worse than SMD.

Just joking a bit, Mike. :)

If there was no "SMD", and what was said was indeed innocuous... there should have been no 7-game absence of BA. Either way, the program and leadership look pretty bad allowing it to play out the way it did.


The last statement is accurate.


Who are you kidding? All of my statements are accurate. :)
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Titans96 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:36 pm

What is this kid thinking? Who is advising this young man? This is so laughable and sad in so many ways.

He has ZERO chance of being drafted.

Per UDM Men’s Basketball Team
Kameron Chatman Declares For NBA Draft, Will Not Hire An Agent #DetroitsCollegeTeam #HLMB
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Titans96 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:01 pm

Well, well, well, now I get to remind everyone of an earlier post I made, but it now has to be modified to reflect how one of our best players deciding he can’t stand playing for this team and our “amazing” coaching staff.

Since I am so "uninformed", can someone on this Board please educate me on how the Titans will replace these 4 players who graduated + Corey Allen, Horizon League Rookie of the Year in 2017?

For your information, these 5 players (who many believe added little value to the team) represented between 36% to 40% of the team totals in Minutes Played, Rebounds, Assists, Points Scored and Steals and 45% of all Blocks this past year.

In order for the Titans to replace these 5 players, these are the numbers someone will have to replace next year (in a 32 game season):
Minutes = 79.82/game (only 40 minutes in a game)
Rebounds = 12.4/game
Assists = 5.4/game
Points = 32.8/game
Steals = 2.1/game
Blocks = 1.2/game

It looks like we need to find a LeBron James and James Harden out there. And even if we find those players to achieve those numbers, we are still the same team we had last season because that is just replacing what we lost. So not only do we need to find a LeBron James and James Harden, the rest of the team will need to have dramatically improved season stats to improve our record versus this past season.

Please educate me if I am missing something here?
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Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:08 pm

I'm not sure we can win more than 2 games next year without Allen. I would think Chatman might just leave now and go play in Europe. Being associated with next year's team might be a total detriment even if he puts up great stats. Of course, we know he won't leave because his dad is an assistant coach and the family is getting paid. The program reeks of nepotism and losing. Completely embarrassing.
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