Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Go TITANS!!! Get all the news and gossip on Men's Basketball.
Forum rules
Please be courteous to one another and have some fun! Go Titans!!

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:36 pm

MooseGuy1 wrote:One of my grievances is that the forum has become a lot less fun. Disagreeing and debating is enjoyable but this has descended into personal attacks by posters on other posters. The season was a bitter pill, true. But is a difficult basketball season reason enough for people who should be essentially friends to get this angry at each other? What happened to a sense of community with various and divergent views getting together to discuss things in a civil and respectful manner?

I would say it's the arrival of Titans96 more than anything.
Titan All Americans Calihan Swanson Sparrow Ebben DeBusschere Murray Haywood Long Tyler Duerod Phillips Green McCallum
Commissioner
Senior
 
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Titans96 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:00 am

Commissioner wrote:
MooseGuy1 wrote:One of my grievances is that the forum has become a lot less fun. Disagreeing and debating is enjoyable but this has descended into personal attacks by posters on other posters. The season was a bitter pill, true. But is a difficult basketball season reason enough for people who should be essentially friends to get this angry at each other? What happened to a sense of community with various and divergent views getting together to discuss things in a civil and respectful manner?

I would say it's the arrival of Titans96 more than anything.


So says the poster lobbing personal attacks on other posters!
Titans96
Senior
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:20 am

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:39 am

Titans96 wrote:
Commissioner wrote:
MooseGuy1 wrote:One of my grievances is that the forum has become a lot less fun. Disagreeing and debating is enjoyable but this has descended into personal attacks by posters on other posters. The season was a bitter pill, true. But is a difficult basketball season reason enough for people who should be essentially friends to get this angry at each other? What happened to a sense of community with various and divergent views getting together to discuss things in a civil and respectful manner?

I would say it's the arrival of Titans96 more than anything.


So says the poster lobbing personal attacks on other posters!

No, I just lob attacks on you, '96.
Titan All Americans Calihan Swanson Sparrow Ebben DeBusschere Murray Haywood Long Tyler Duerod Phillips Green McCallum
Commissioner
Senior
 
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby upbasketballfan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 am

uofdfan1983 wrote:Agenda? You don't have an agenda, 96?

It is "my" University in the sense that it is where I went to college and earned 2 degrees so I take pride in it. It also "your" University for your own reasons. Of course it is "our" University and we need hundreds of thousands who feel that way about the place.

My agenda is simply this: build a stronger University with strong Programs, a vibrant campus, great Professors, an active on-campus dorm community and winning Athletic Programs top-to-bottom. This requires leadership. I believe we have a great leader. Robert is a friend of his but in the end, the Athletic Dept will either grow under Robert's leadership, or it will not. If not, I am sure Dr. Garabaldi will do what he must. Same goes for Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball, Men's Soccer, Softball...you get the point. Overall, the University and The City are both movin' on up together. If enrollment and revenue and donations were decreasing, maybe there would be some truth to Div II/III argument. But the overall strength of the University is improving. If we could get new dorms (i.e., cooperation from City Hall) we'd really be exploding right now.

Just as the Tigers had to start over, so did we. Brad Ausmus was brought in but he wasn't the right choice. So they moved on. We'll get this thing right again and when we do we'll leave OU and the rest of this league in our dust.


+1 Tom
upbasketballfan
Senior
 
Posts: 1609
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:00 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Oudrummer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:09 am

Not my team. Not my board. But I do have a grievance anyway. And since this thread is just a dumpster fire waiting to happen anyway, I’ll finally post it.

How do you guys not have a bigger fit with your coaching staff? Lots of complaints about BA, Vowels, JJJ... but why do most seem to miss the obvious? You have two assistant coaches that were brought in to bring their children to the program and overcome a shortcoming in recruiting, but in doing so it has created a rift in the team and empowered some crazy hero ball. Chatman wasn’t that good on an above average Michigan team. Now his dad agreed to bring him to your school if it came with a job for him and a landing spot for his other kid. And JJ... yeah. It’s lkke BA has made deals with the devils.

I like seeing you guys lose. But this is getting out of control.
Oudrummer
Senior
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:21 am

+1, Drummer.

I think Tom actually unproved his point. I didn't know that Garibaldi and Vowels are close friends. This just tells me that Garibaldi will not fire Vowels this next month or two, which I'm pretty sure everyone else on this board agrees needs to happen. At the end of the day it's just wishful thinking. The Titans must get better! Why? Well, they must! Simply because he WANTS them to. It's basically the same Law of Attraction philosophy that BA believes in. Believe and hope you'll be great and you just will! Tom mentions enrollment, campus improvement, great faculty and all of that. Those things can go hand in hand with success in athletics, but the university very well could succeed in all of those areas but still fail in D1 athletics. I don't think what I'm saying is controversial. We really do need a new AD. Vowels seems like a smart guy based on his resume. I've never met him but based on what's gone on the past few years, it seems this just isn't the job for him.
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby uofdfan1983 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:01 pm

Right now it's not prudent to defend Vowels or BA except to say that they both understand the expectations and the responsibility. One of the things not brought up here much is that Vowels is the first AD we've had in my lifetime who is willing to fire an underperforming coach. He's done it in several sports: womens basketball, mens basketball...even softball! I know that he is analyzing the situation right now. My belief is that BA gets one more year to move things in the right direction or else he's gone. People like Vowels who are willing to fire underachievers also know they are being held accountable from above.

In the past, mediocrity and sub-mediocrity were acceptable at U-D. I remember it was such a big deal when Keri fired Bob Wilkerson as softball coach. It was probably the first firing of a "nice guy" (and Bob is a really nice guy) for on-field performance in 20 years. It was the first of its kind in a long time, that's for sure. Vowels is different. BA will probably get his 3rd year and we should all be behind him if/when he does. Buy into the changes coming, or buy out. But either way, do your crying to the people who make the decisions.

Tac reveals he's never talked to Vowels. Yet he splatters all these opinions on this Board. What do you know about this Program that you can't watch on ESPN3? Why don't you give your opinions to whome it matters? If you say that Vowels doesn't matter, then I ask: do you voice your opinion to Garibaldi or Board Members? If you do, great. If not, quit complaining just on this Board. Do something about improving the situation. Send a contingent donation. Talk to people who actually work at the school. At least send an email.

On March 24, first home softball weekend, there will be a memorial before the Saturday DH to Roger J. Buysse. As we speak, the new netting backstop/improved dugout fences are being installed at Buysse Ballpark. It was Roger's final donation to the Program. I will throw out the first pitch in his honor, a tribute I don't deserve but I will do it because he would want me to. He was not a wallflower. He didn't just donate and accept whatever came. He wanted us to win big. He always got upset that U-M and MSU usually beat us to the best players. He didn't believe we should ever accept 2nd place. He was a winner in life and he challenged the University Administrators to make us a winner also. He made donations but he also kept pushing the University to do better. That's a role model for all of us to follow.
Tom Buysse
Classes of 1983 and 1987
uofdfan1983
Senior
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:52 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:26 pm

Tom, I've reached out to the university numerous times and have offered to help in ways I thought would have been very beneficial. I never get a response so I've quit trying. I won't go into the details, but I've shared my experience with at least a few members on this forum and they have shared with me very similar experiences.

I don't think Dtrt Mrc wants my help or insight and that's fine. Criticizing on this board seems to be all there is left.
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:39 pm

LOL - Vowels fired an "underperforming" WBB coach and now the current one has his players and system and they're 2-28!

Vowels demanding excellence.

Can ANYONE ELSE on this board deliver any rational or logical argument that says Vowels should NOT be let go?
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Titans96 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:56 pm

It is very interesting how Tom never brings up how his buddy Vowels forced JJSr onto Ray. It definitely happened, Tom knows that it happened, and was a major reason Ray's teams performance declined (and I would guess is a major reason BA's performance is so bad). However, I also find it interesting how Tom says Ray was an "underperforming coach" and rightly fired by Vowels.

So a 6th place finish in the Horizon League is a reason for termination? So a 14 win season is a reason for termination? So having over 2,000 fans/game in attendance is reason for termination? By the way, our former underperforming coach is now 1 half away from helping his GA State team (as the #1 assistant coach) from going to the dance.

What does it mean when a coach wins 8 games for two years in a row, gets punished for his SMD comments, and gets a 7th and 10th place finish in an even weaker Horizon League? What does it mean when a coach has record low attendance numbers for any Titan Team in history two years in a row and is likely under 750 fans/game next year if he stays?

Also, why does Tom choose not to address questions regarding his words on why "the coaches were not all on the same page and players chose sides" this year. Isn't Vowels a great leader and manager? How can he let that go on in his finely tuned and precisely lead Athletic Department?
Titans96
Senior
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:20 am

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Commissioner » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:59 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:LOL - Vowels fired an "underperforming" WBB coach and now the current one has his players and system and they're 2-28!

Vowels demanding excellence.


Several have commented on the state of the women's program in these various threads, usually to implicitly or explicitly criticize Vowels. This is the kind of case where perspective may be useful. Vowels hired Scott. Scott took over a team that was 12-18 the year before, 18-42 over the prior two years. He went 15-15 his first year, including 11-7 in conference. His second team was 18-14, including 12-6 in conference, and reached the finals of the conference tournament. After losing their best player, Rosanna Reynolds, the Titans were picked for 5th in the conference this year. I don't follow the team close enough to at all know why they were so horrible here, and I doubt that many others here do either, although I'm pretty sure it has something to do with JJ and JJJ. I do know that Brianne Cohen, a pre-season 1st team all-conference selection, had a very disappointing year, and didn't even make 2nd team (don't know if she was fighting little injuries or anything).

The point is that I'm not sure it's so obvious that one would want to dump Coach Scott or consider this a terrible hire on the basis of one season, as historically bad as it was, especially after the prior two were good, and a marked improvement from the couple years before that.

Just sayin'.
Titan All Americans Calihan Swanson Sparrow Ebben DeBusschere Murray Haywood Long Tyler Duerod Phillips Green McCallum
Commissioner
Senior
 
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:04 pm

Well, at least the softball team is currently 3-13.

Again, what has Vowels done besides buy a new scoreboard?
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby uofdfan1983 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:34 pm

It is very interesting how Tom never brings up how his buddy Vowels forced JJSr onto Ray. It definitely happened, Tom knows that it happened, and was a major reason Ray's teams performance declined (and I would guess is a major reason BA's performance is so bad). However, I also find it interesting how Tom says Ray was an "underperforming coach" and rightly fired by Vowels.

I don't know if JJ was forced on Ray or not. JJ had no prior connections with either Vowels or Ray. Ray was fired for reasons beyond his W-L record, I know that for sure. If you don't believe it, talk to our AD or someone who was close to the Team. I do know that BA chose to keep JJ and that it was a logical decision; someone from the previous regime is usually kept as a carryover coach and he was the logical choice.

So a 6th place finish in the Horizon League is a reason for termination? So a 14 win season is a reason for termination? So having over 2,000 fans/game in attendance is reason for termination? By the way, our former underperforming coach is now 1 half away from helping his GA State team (as the #1 assistant coach) from going to the dance.

See above. Ray was fired for other reasons. Ray has already hit his ceiling as a coach. Don't you see that? What difference does it make whether we go 14-14 with 1,800 fans or 8-24 with 800 fans. Until we start winning NCAA tourney games again I will not be satisfied.

What does it mean when a coach wins 8 games for two years in a row, gets punished for his SMD comments, and gets a 7th and 10th place finish in an even weaker Horizon League? What does it mean when a coach has record low attendance numbers for any Titan Team in history two years in a row and is likely under 750 fans/game next year if he stays?

It means he better start winning soon or he'll be out of a job.

Also, why does Tom choose not to address questions regarding his words on why "the coaches were not all on the same page and players chose sides" this year. Isn't Vowels a great leader and manager? How can he let that go on in his finely tuned and precisely lead Athletic Department?

This is something the AD and Coach need to address and clear up. If they don't, they will both be out of a job. This definitely fits under the category of leadership required from the AD Position.

Unlike others here who hide in anonymity, I try to be transparent. I believe Hammond is too nice to posters on this Board. He should make you guys identify yourselves. People know who Mik2008 is, people know who TitanMac is. That's the way it should be. I can't post everything I think I know but I want to inform when I can. I am upset that we stink and I let it be known every game when I see a crappy performance. Doesn't mean that I quit on the Program or go 100% negative. I search for the truth and hope the necessary changes are being made. I believe they are.
Tom Buysse
Classes of 1983 and 1987
uofdfan1983
Senior
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:52 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby udballer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:06 pm

uofdfan1983 wrote: I do know that BA chose to keep JJ and that it was a logical decision; someone from the previous regime is usually kept


Is that a true statement? I don't pay extra special attention to coaching changes, but it seems hard to believe. When BA is relieved of his duties, I certainly hope the next guy doesn't keep someone from this staff around. Well, maybe Mickey.

uofdfan1983 wrote:Unlike others here who hide in anonymity, I try to be transparent. I believe Hammond is too nice to posters on this Board. He should make you guys identify yourselves. People know who Mik2008 is, people know who TitanMac is. That's the way it should be. I can't post everything I think I know but I want to inform when I can. I am upset that we stink and I let it be known every game when I see a crappy performance. Doesn't mean that I quit on the Program or go 100% negative. I search for the truth and hope the necessary changes are being made. I believe they are.


I don't think many people on this board are trying to hide in anonymity, so I'm not sure where that came from, exactly. I've posted on several message boards throughout the years and 99% old the message board world is anonymous, probably for a good reason.

I'll remain "anonymous" though I'm quite sure I've given plenty of info as to who I am if anyone wanted to talk with me about Titan sports. I'm nearly 40 years old and I'm sitting at most home games with a 6 year old kid (and sometimes my wife) in the upper bowl. Being that there are only about 87 people total in the upper bowl, I'm easy to find. :D
udballer
Senior
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:28 pm

Yeah, since when is anonymity a part of internet message boards? I've given my name to numerous people on this board via PMs and I'm certainly not hiding anything.

We are not "quitting in the program" either. We are genuinely concerned that Vowels is ruining it to the point of no return.
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby MooseGuy1 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:38 pm

udballer wrote:
uofdfan1983 wrote: I do know that BA chose to keep JJ and that it was a logical decision; someone from the previous regime is usually kept


Is that a true statement? I don't pay extra special attention to coaching changes, but it seems hard to believe. When BA is relieved of his duties, I certainly hope the next guy doesn't keep someone from this staff around. Well, maybe Mickey.

uofdfan1983 wrote:Unlike others here who hide in anonymity, I try to be transparent. I believe Hammond is too nice to posters on this Board. He should make you guys identify yourselves. People know who Mik2008 is, people know who TitanMac is. That's the way it should be. I can't post everything I think I know but I want to inform when I can. I am upset that we stink and I let it be known every game when I see a crappy performance. Doesn't mean that I quit on the Program or go 100% negative. I search for the truth and hope the necessary changes are being made. I believe they are.


I don't think many people on this board are trying to hide in anonymity, so I'm not sure where that came from, exactly. I've posted on several message boards throughout the years and 99% old the message board world is anonymous, probably for a good reason.

I'll remain "anonymous" though I'm quite sure I've given plenty of info as to who I am if anyone wanted to talk with me about Titan sports. I'm nearly 40 years old and I'm sitting at most home games with a 6 year old kid (and sometimes my wife) in the upper bowl. Being that there are only about 87 people total in the upper bowl, I'm easy to find. :D


Sometimes the 6 year olds are your wife?!!!!
MooseGuy1
Senior
 
Posts: 3626
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:45 pm

Bahahahahahaha
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby uofdfan1983 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 pm

udballer wrote:
uofdfan1983 wrote: I do know that BA chose to keep JJ and that it was a logical decision; someone from the previous regime is usually kept


Is that a true statement? I don't pay extra special attention to coaching changes, but it seems hard to believe. When BA is relieved of his duties, I certainly hope the next guy doesn't keep someone from this staff around. Well, maybe Mickey.

uofdfan1983 wrote:Unlike others here who hide in anonymity, I try to be transparent. I believe Hammond is too nice to posters on this Board. He should make you guys identify yourselves. People know who Mik2008 is, people know who TitanMac is. That's the way it should be. I can't post everything I think I know but I want to inform when I can. I am upset that we stink and I let it be known every game when I see a crappy performance. Doesn't mean that I quit on the Program or go 100% negative. I search for the truth and hope the necessary changes are being made. I believe they are.


I don't think many people on this board are trying to hide in anonymity, so I'm not sure where that came from, exactly. I've posted on several message boards throughout the years and 99% old the message board world is anonymous, probably for a good reason.

I'll remain "anonymous" though I'm quite sure I've given plenty of info as to who I am if anyone wanted to talk with me about Titan sports. I'm nearly 40 years old and I'm sitting at most home games with a 6 year old kid (and sometimes my wife) in the upper bowl. Being that there are only about 87 people total in the upper bowl, I'm easy to find. :D


Baller, you just proved my point.Re-read what you posted, please. Message Boards might be the scourge of trolls and such hidden rampaging but that doesn't mean I have to like that trend. You question my comment, then admit it's true of 99% of posters, then remain in the 99% by claiming your continued anonymity. Your stagename is appropriate indeed.
Tom Buysse
Classes of 1983 and 1987
uofdfan1983
Senior
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:52 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:32 pm

MooseGuy1 wrote:One of my grievances is that the forum has become a lot less fun. Disagreeing and debating is enjoyable but this has descended into personal attacks by posters on other posters. The season was a bitter pill, true. But is a difficult basketball season reason enough for people who should be essentially friends to get this angry at each other? What happened to a sense of community with various and divergent views getting together to discuss things in a civil and respectful manner?


This forum sure was a lot more fun back during the McCallum days when we had dozens of people active. Now we have maybe 10 people actively participating. That's not because of any of the negative posters or personal attacks. It's because of Vowels driving this program and athletic department into the gutter.

Feel free to go back and read any comment of mine. I wasn't a negative poster years ago. I always supported Ray and I never had anything but positive things to say back then. Like most people, I gave BA a chance. I'm ticked off that Vowels fired a good coach and good man. Ticked off we are the cellar team in the worst conference in America. Not apologizing for it.
Tacitus651
Senior
 
Posts: 2127
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm

Re: Official Airing of Grievances Thread

Postby udballer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:43 pm

uofdfan1983 wrote:
udballer wrote:
uofdfan1983 wrote: I do know that BA chose to keep JJ and that it was a logical decision; someone from the previous regime is usually kept


Is that a true statement? I don't pay extra special attention to coaching changes, but it seems hard to believe. When BA is relieved of his duties, I certainly hope the next guy doesn't keep someone from this staff around. Well, maybe Mickey.

uofdfan1983 wrote:Unlike others here who hide in anonymity, I try to be transparent. I believe Hammond is too nice to posters on this Board. He should make you guys identify yourselves. People know who Mik2008 is, people know who TitanMac is. That's the way it should be. I can't post everything I think I know but I want to inform when I can. I am upset that we stink and I let it be known every game when I see a crappy performance. Doesn't mean that I quit on the Program or go 100% negative. I search for the truth and hope the necessary changes are being made. I believe they are.


I don't think many people on this board are trying to hide in anonymity, so I'm not sure where that came from, exactly. I've posted on several message boards throughout the years and 99% old the message board world is anonymous, probably for a good reason.

I'll remain "anonymous" though I'm quite sure I've given plenty of info as to who I am if anyone wanted to talk with me about Titan sports. I'm nearly 40 years old and I'm sitting at most home games with a 6 year old kid (and sometimes my wife) in the upper bowl. Being that there are only about 87 people total in the upper bowl, I'm easy to find. :D


Baller, you just proved my point.Re-read what you posted, please. Message Boards might be the scourge of trolls and such hidden rampaging but that doesn't mean I have to like that trend. You question my comment, then admit it's true of 99% of posters, then remain in the 99% by claiming your continued anonymity. Your stagename is appropriate indeed.


WTF are you talking about? Yes, I stated that message boards tend to be anonymous and I don't see any reason to complain about that. Not sure what your issue with that is? I'm quite certain that none of the regular posters on this board are nervous that Tom may find out who they actually are, so what's the big deal?
udballer
Senior
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:56 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Men's Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests

cron