From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

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From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby Titan Jim » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:36 pm

"Dark Horse emerging in the Detroit coaching race! Todd Lickliter is in there strong....... Vowels is crazy to think that going to work....... He is all over the place......"
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby HSScout1 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:52 pm

I'm not sure how reliable the "coaching changes" guy is. Lickliter is rumored to be going to Evansville as an assistant coach, but that obviously can change
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby Tacitus651 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:20 pm

FFS. Lickliter is 62 years old! Even if he did turn the ship around, he'd probably retire or get put in a home before we had any real success. Come on, Vowels. This can't be true.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby upbasketballfan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:34 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:FFS. Lickliter is 62 years old! Even if he did turn the ship around, he'd probably retire or get put in a home before we had any real success. Come on, Vowels. This can't be true.


Why not it looks like he can coach? Isn't that what we are looking for? Do I sense a little age discrimination here? We need a turn around quickly and Lickliter has a history and is connected to Indiana and Marrion which has always been a great basketball area. Didn't do well at Iowa but I think he did manage to pull a couple of good players out of Michigan. If the guys that thought BA was okay do not like this candidate then he must be the right guy. Good leaders lead and hire the right people then empower them so that they can do their jobs. I never told this story but at the game in Green Bay his year I was sitting where I could hear BA and at a time out BA told the referee. You do not want to get me going or I'll be all over you and everyone knows how tough I can be. The ref laughed at him as if he was stupid and at that point I thought he was also.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby ptctitan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:43 pm

This is the 5th name published by Coaching Changes. If they keep throwing out names, they could be right.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby titanmike » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:46 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:FFS. Lickliter is 62 years old! Even if he did turn the ship around, he'd probably retire or get put in a home before we had any real success. Come on, Vowels. This can't be true.


Why not it looks like he can coach? Isn't that what we are looking for? Do I sense a little age discrimination here? We need a turn around quickly and Lickliter has a history and is connected to Indiana and Marrion which has always been a great basketball area. Didn't do well at Iowa but I think he did manage to pull a couple of good players out of Michigan. If the guys that thought BA was okay do not like this candidate then he must be the right guy. I never told this story but at the game in Green Bay his year I was sitting where I could hear BA and at a time out BA told the referee. You do not want to get me going or I'll be all over you and everyone knows how tough I can be. The ref laughed at him as if he was stupid and at that point I thought he was also.


Are you serious? Because I was in favor of BA, that eliminates me from having an opinion, and he must be the right guy? You cant be serious. It isn't an age thing, but it is. At 62 and 3 years out of coaching, 7 years out of coaching at a D1 school what kind of recruiting connections does he have left? His best finish in any coaching spot since he left Butler 10 years ago + is 4th. In my opinion its a no.

As for Bacari and a ref, maybe he was in fact angry at the ref, but if the refs were laughing then BA was probably laughing also , I am sure he knew the refs after all of this years coaching.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby Tacitus651 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:56 pm

Yeah, you can book me for one count of internet message board age discrimination. It's one thing when guys like Izzo and coach K build programs and sustain them. By all means, let them keep doing it so long as they can.

But, like Mike points out, Lickliter comes with none of that. We're talking about a guy that most recently coached NAIA and wasn't even all that good at that. I can't imagine a worse hire.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby ptctitan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:00 pm

Coaching Changes thinks we should hire Ziegler, Mann or Murphy from Creighton.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby upbasketballfan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:19 pm

titanmike wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:FFS. Lickliter is 62 years old! Even if he did turn the ship around, he'd probably retire or get put in a home before we had any real success. Come on, Vowels. This can't be true.


Why not it looks like he can coach? Isn't that what we are looking for? Do I sense a little age discrimination here? We need a turn around quickly and Lickliter has a history and is connected to Indiana and Marrion which has always been a great basketball area. Didn't do well at Iowa but I think he did manage to pull a couple of good players out of Michigan. If the guys that thought BA was okay do not like this candidate then he must be the right guy. I never told this story but at the game in Green Bay his year I was sitting where I could hear BA and at a time out BA told the referee. You do not want to get me going or I'll be all over you and everyone knows how tough I can be. The ref laughed at him as if he was stupid and at that point I thought he was also.


Are you serious? Because I was in favor of BA, that eliminates me from having an opinion, and he must be the right guy? You cant be serious. It isn't an age thing, but it is. At 62 and 3 years out of coaching, 7 years out of coaching at a D1 school what kind of recruiting connections does he have left? His best finish in any coaching spot since he left Butler 10 years ago + is 4th. In my opinion its a no.

As for Bacari and a ref, maybe he was in fact angry at the ref, but if the refs were laughing then BA was probably laughing also , I am sure he knew the refs after all of this years coaching.


I felt he was trying to intimidate the ref and was really unsuccessful at it. You are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. Lickliter I am sure still has friends in the coaching profession and his coaching tree is impressive so he probably can bring in some very good assistants who will do the leg work and be in place when he leaves. He probably isn't looking for a long term deal. It is obvious to me from prior discussions that you and I are probably never going to see eye to eye. Probably the only thing we will agree on is that we both want success for the U of D. Remember I was one of the few who liked Harding and not because I thought he was a great guy but because he could coach. So I am not trying in anyway to influence your opinion. Just stating what I feel and trying to contribute to the conversation. I felt BA was not the right guy because I watched him do his so called coaching and it was weak. Like I said before he was a back slapper. The right guy does not have to be someone we like. He doesn't need to tell us what we want to hear but what we need to hear. We had to get it right last time. Now we really need to get it right. No time left for experiments. We need the real thing now not a learn on the job guy. I am guessing that in the coaching ranks right now do to our recent history we have become a so called coaches graveyard. So at this point we might need to get the best candidate who still has drive and ambition but not afraid of becoming part of the carnage.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby upbasketballfan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:32 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:Yeah, you can book me for one count of internet message board age discrimination. It's one thing when guys like Izzo and coach K build programs and sustain them. By all means, let them keep doing it so long as they can.

But, like Mike points out, Lickliter comes with none of that. We're talking about a guy that most recently coached NAIA and wasn't even all that good at that. I can't imagine a worse hire.


I can imagine quite a few and some of them have been recent suggestions on this board. In fact the three just listed by coaching changes. We have Vowels who I also wasn't in favor of but we have him so now lets let him do his thing and try and support who ever it ends up being.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby udballer » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:10 pm

Why no more board speculation that Thad Matta may be coming to town. I personally think it's a pipe dream... but I would much rather picture that scenario playing out that nearly every other scenario mentioned. I'd much rather hear that we're talking to Kevin Stallings than Cornell Mann.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby titandave » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:15 pm

udballer wrote:Why no more board speculation that Thad Matta may be coming to town. I personally think it's a pipe dream... but I would much rather picture that scenario playing out that nearly every other scenario mentioned. I'd much rather hear that we're talking to Kevin Stallings than Cornell Mann.

Likewise .... I hope Kevin Stallings and Cornell Mann are on the short list of candidates.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby Big Chuck » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:26 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:Yeah, you can book me for one count of internet message board age discrimination. It's one thing when guys like Izzo and coach K build programs and sustain them. By all means, let them keep doing it so long as they can.

But, like Mike points out, Lickliter comes with none of that. We're talking about a guy that most recently coached NAIA and wasn't even all that good at that. I can't imagine a worse hire.


You don't have to imagine a worse hire. We just lived through one!
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby Tacitus651 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Ha! Got me there!
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby Big Chuck » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:52 pm

titanmike wrote:Are you serious? Because I was in favor of BA, that eliminates me from having an opinion, and he must be the right guy? You cant be serious. It isn't an age thing, but it is. At 62 and 3 years out of coaching, 7 years out of coaching at a D1 school what kind of recruiting connections does he have left? His best finish in any coaching spot since he left Butler 10 years ago + is 4th. In my opinion its a no.

As for Bacari and a ref, maybe he was in fact angry at the ref, but if the refs were laughing then BA was probably laughing also , I am sure he knew the refs after all of this years coaching.


Mike,
I don't think 62 should be a problem. We really need someone to stabilize the program and get us back to being competitive. It would be nice to hit a "home run" but it is imperative that we not get a "strike out". Hiring an older coach that know how to do things, and has a lot of connections to hire for a solid staff (and maybe a successor). Might even become a single or even an extra base hit.

It also carries little risk. Some of the HS coaches being mentioned may turn out to be good, but also may be a total miss. There is a lot more than x's and o's to DI coaching. Our staff has been very weak under BA. I was extremely frustrated that the staff returned unchanged last season. BA had an excuse the first year because of the late hire. No excuse the second year. Whoever comes on board now is going to be a late hire with most of the other programs staff positions being settled. How can we expect a HS coach to assemble any kind of an experienced staff?

I am not advocating TL, but ask everyone to consider the possibility of him or someone like him.

I think I can live with an experienced Head Coach who is in the twilight of his career who can get things under control and get us ready to go compete. In couple of years, maybe he can groom a replacement (like Butler, Valpo etc.) or maybe ev en take us to the promised land. Remember if we do hire a "home run", he will be gone in less than 5 years. Many coaches can coach till they are 67 or even later.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby JimmyChitwood » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:41 am

Big Chuck wrote: It would be nice to hit a "home run" but it is imperative that we not get a "strike out".

Along those same lines, this hire could be the most crucial hire in school history. We are at a major crossroads. We can go two ways, up or down. Our attendance fell off a cliff in the past couple of years. Our long-time large donors are slowing down and disappearing. There is not much respect for our AD. We get little to no publicity or respect locally. Our team has not played well. We may be losing almost all of our best players. Our future alumni don't know where Calihan Hall is. Our facilities have barely improved in the past 50 years except Titan Field (the scoreboard, floor, study room, weight room, media room are common maintenance issues and some are still below par).

But mostly I'm thinking of fan-base. That needs to grow. The new coach needs to bring people back by recruiting good players, but, perhaps more important, get them to play well. He needs to be a smart coach and have the respect of his players rather than someone who looks good on paper. He needs to have the respect of the fans. Be open as he can and honest. We saw what happened the last two years with a free-for-all offense and little defense. Where the players were being told different things by different coaches. We also need an administration that wants to be successful.

That coach may be hard to find. We may not know if he is that kind of coach until after a year or two. He may be old or young. He may have lots of DI head coaching experience or he may have none. But he needs have the respect of his players and fans. He needs to get the most out of his players. He needs to know which plays to call.
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Re: From Coaching Changes Twitter Account...

Postby titanmike » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Big Chuck wrote:
titanmike wrote:Are you serious? Because I was in favor of BA, that eliminates me from having an opinion, and he must be the right guy? You cant be serious. It isn't an age thing, but it is. At 62 and 3 years out of coaching, 7 years out of coaching at a D1 school what kind of recruiting connections does he have left? His best finish in any coaching spot since he left Butler 10 years ago + is 4th. In my opinion its a no.

As for Bacari and a ref, maybe he was in fact angry at the ref, but if the refs were laughing then BA was probably laughing also , I am sure he knew the refs after all of this years coaching.


Mike,
I don't think 62 should be a problem. We really need someone to stabilize the program and get us back to being competitive. It would be nice to hit a "home run" but it is imperative that we not get a "strike out". Hiring an older coach that know how to do things, and has a lot of connections to hire for a solid staff (and maybe a successor). Might even become a single or even an extra base hit.

It also carries little risk. Some of the HS coaches being mentioned may turn out to be good, but also may be a total miss. There is a lot more than x's and o's to DI coaching. Our staff has been very weak under BA. I was extremely frustrated that the staff returned unchanged last season. BA had an excuse the first year because of the late hire. No excuse the second year. Whoever comes on board now is going to be a late hire with most of the other programs staff positions being settled. How can we expect a HS coach to assemble any kind of an experienced staff?

I am not advocating TL, but ask everyone to consider the possibility of him or someone like him.

I think I can live with an experienced Head Coach who is in the twilight of his career who can get things under control and get us ready to go compete. In couple of years, maybe he can groom a replacement (like Butler, Valpo etc.) or maybe ev en take us to the promised land. Remember if we do hire a "home run", he will be gone in less than 5 years. Many coaches can coach till they are 67 or even later.


I have zero issue with 62. I have issue with 62 and not in the game for several years at NCAA D1 level.
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