Fire Vowels please

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Fire Vowels please

Postby The-Dude » Wed May 02, 2018 7:48 pm

No disrespect, just time for us to move on PLEAZZZZZZZE...

Also heard a rumor that one of the stipulations for the new head coach is for JJ to remain as assistant. If this is true, it would be UNBELIEVABLE.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby 77-85Titan » Wed May 02, 2018 9:05 pm

That would be the final nail in the coffin for the once proud U-D Basketball program. Div 2 or 3 here we come. Thanks, Mr. Vowels.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby The-Dude » Sat May 05, 2018 10:06 pm

Bump...
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby upbasketballfan » Mon May 07, 2018 10:21 am

The-Dude wrote:Bump...


+1
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby Oudrummer » Tue May 08, 2018 1:18 pm

This seems like a good place to leave this.

https://twitter.com/goldengrizzlies/sta ... 28736?s=21
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby TitanONeill » Tue May 08, 2018 1:42 pm

Good. Rub it in our faces. It should piss us the f off. Oakland should have NEVER been anywhere near us in terms of beating us in anything. Now, they have passed us and no one gives a S*** within the administration. Tommy Titans reaction..." Next Year?". But let's keep our lame Mercy tradition and ask for "Mercy" so the bleeding stops?
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby titanmike » Tue May 08, 2018 1:50 pm

TitanONeill wrote:Good. Rub it in our faces. It should piss us the f off. Oakland should have NEVER been anywhere near us in terms of beating us in anything. Now, they have passed us and no one gives a S*** within the administration. Tommy Titans reaction..." Next Year?". But let's keep our lame Mercy tradition and ask for "Mercy" so the bleeding stops?


Not to mention they shouldn't have agreed to the series in the first place
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby R.B.J1 » Tue May 08, 2018 3:29 pm

titanmike wrote:
TitanONeill wrote:Good. Rub it in our faces. It should piss us the f off. Oakland should have NEVER been anywhere near us in terms of beating us in anything. Now, they have passed us and no one gives a S*** within the administration. Tommy Titans reaction..." Next Year?". But let's keep our lame Mercy tradition and ask for "Mercy" so the bleeding stops?


Not to mention they shouldn't have agreed to the series in the first place


+1, another dumb decision by Robert "The Don"Vowels.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby Oudrummer » Tue May 08, 2018 3:36 pm

You’re going to say I’m being a troll. But I’m genuine.

Why not?
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby bctitans1987 » Tue May 08, 2018 4:49 pm

Another stupid decision by Vowels. A manufactured rivalry of two schools that are polar opposites: UDM is a private Catholic institution with a total student population of less than 3k. Oakland is a hugh public school similar to SVSU or Eastern--with an enrollment of 25k and counting. Cut-off the state funds (which they should) and OU would close their doors tomorrow.

Athletically, not one private school in Michigan competes against the state-run "institutions of higher education". So, for us to think that UDM can is silly.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby StJoeUofD » Tue May 08, 2018 5:27 pm

Someone needs to let Villanova know that they should stop beating those big public universities. It just isn't right for a Catholic school to do that. ;)
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Tue May 08, 2018 5:28 pm

bctitans1987 wrote:Another stupid decision by Vowels. A manufactured rivalry of two schools that are polar opposites: UDM is a private Catholic institution with a total student population of less than 3k. Oakland is a hugh public school similar to SVSU or Eastern--with an enrollment of 25k and counting. Cut-off the state funds (which they should) and OU would close their doors tomorrow.

Athletically, not one private school in Michigan competes against the state-run "institutions of higher education". So, for us to think that UDM can is silly.


I believe student enrollment at Detroit Mercy is 5100 for total student population and Oakland 20,000, but you are correct they are a much bigger school and they do receive state aid. I do believe the entire Horizon League is public institutions at this point. I would much rather we raised our performance and expectations rather than simply lower them just because we have struggled to this point. I would rather see us beat OU in Tennis, Cross Country, Track, Basketball and so on.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby StJoeUofD » Tue May 08, 2018 5:48 pm

In all seriousness, student enrollment isn't a particularly good measure for basketball team performance. Many of the Div II teams are 20,000 or more, like Wayne State or Ferris State. The performance of the team is directly related to getting the proper management of the athletic department, finding a coach that can recruit the type of athletes that work well within his/her system and showing the student athlete why they should be a Titan. This can be done at a big or a small school. Like Gonzaga, when you can't get the elite big guys in the USA, recruit overseas. This has worked well for our tennis team and other Titan teams. We just haven't analyzed our athletic "business" and taken advantage of our strengths. I have mentioned before that there are lots of families in Eastern Europe that have boys 2 meters tall (6' 7") and taller that would love for their kids to get a great Catholic education in the USA. You don't need 10 guys over 2 meters, but you do need a couple. Play to our strengths and quit whining when we don't get kids from Michigan. We have almost no advantage in Michigan and our competitors could never convince a family in Slovakia to send their tall son to a public school in America. Competing where you are weak will only depress you. Competing where you are strong will give you confidence. It isn't easy, but it is a better strategy than we have now. The Titans will never be Michigan's team. We can, however, field at least the 3rd best team in Michigan and best the top two from time to time.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby Rogobob77 » Tue May 08, 2018 5:52 pm

StJoeUofD wrote:In all seriousness, student enrollment isn't a particularly good measure for basketball team performance. Many of the Div II teams are 20,000 or more, like Wayne State or Ferris State. The performance of the team is directly related to getting the proper management of the athletic department, finding a coach that can recruit the type of athletes that work well within his/her system and showing the student athlete why they should be a Titan. This can be done at a big or a small school. Like Gonzaga, when you can't get the elite big guys in the USA, recruit overseas. This has worked well for our tennis team and other Titan teams. We just haven't analyzed our athletic "business" and taken advantage of our strengths. I have mentioned before that there are lots of families in Eastern Europe that have boys 2 meters tall (6' 7") and taller that would love for their kids to get a great Catholic education in the USA. You don't need 10 guys over 2 meters, but you do need a couple. Play to our strengths and quit whining when we don't get kids from Michigan. We have almost no advantage in Michigan and our competitors could never convince a family in Slovakia to send their tall son to a public school in America. Competing where you are weak will only depress you. Competing where you are strong will give you confidence. It isn't easy, but it is a better strategy than we have now. The Titans will never be Michigan's team. We can, however, field at least the 3rd best team in Michigan and best the top two from time to time.

Agree, what does the relatve size of total enrollment have to do with it? Take golf. Presumably we have the same number of athletes on the team as OU, give out the same number of scholarships, pay coaches about the same (guessing here, but I know we paid our MBB coach more). I’d venture to say our overall athletic program would be just as crappily performing in the smaller-school all-private MAAC.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby ptctitan » Tue May 08, 2018 8:11 pm

Where enrollment size does play a factor is the variety of courses and majors that can be offered in a financially sound manner to students. This can reduce the pool of available athletes for any sport as opposed to larger schools that can offer more classroom options to their student-athletes. This does not make overall athletic excellence impossible. But it can make it more difficult to recruit and retain good athletes who are not as highly interested in the courses that they must take at Detroit versus a larger state university that can offer a more comprehensive and diverse set of majors.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby Titan Andrew » Tue May 08, 2018 9:10 pm

Rogobob77 wrote:Agree, what does the relatve size of total enrollment have to do with it? Take golf. Presumably we have the same number of athletes on the team as OU, give out the same number of scholarships, pay coaches about the same (guessing here, but I know we paid our MBB coach more). I’d venture to say our overall athletic program would be just as crappily performing in the smaller-school all-private MAAC.


Total enrollment does matter for a sport like track where there aren’t nearly enough scholarships available to give full rides (or even partials) to completely fill a roster at a big meet such as the the Horizon League Championship. A lot of the depth in the events is provided by walk-ons. The walk-on talent pool (in theory and usually in practice) is much deeper at schools with larger enrollments.

I would argue that the cost of tuition is a big advantage for less expensive schools in “non counting” sports like men’s golf. Men’s golf is capped at 4.5 scholarships. In a tournament you shoot 5 and score 4 per round. If you have 6 guys on scholarship to account for an injury and encourage competition you could have 3 guys with fulls and 3 guys with 50%. Say tuition at School #1 is $20k and tuition at School #2 is $10k. Both schools could go after 3 top guys with the fulls. However, to round out the roster the other 3 guys would be paying $10k at School #1 and only $5k at School #2. That would be a competitive advantage for School #2. Take it one step farther and instead of School #2 going 3 fulls and 3 at 50% they go 4 fulls and 2 at 25%. They can in theory get one more top player than School #1 with the extra full and the 25% guys would pay $7.5k...still less than the 50% guys at School #1. This might be a rather simplistic approach but it does shape up into a competitive advantage for schools with less expensive tuition in “non counting” sports.
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby Southpawl » Tue May 08, 2018 10:28 pm

Well, Larry Geracioti and Willie McCarter took us from the glory days of Vitale and Gaines in the mid-late 70's to the disastrous teams of the 80's. Looks like Bacari Alexander and Robert Vowels will be remembered as the two who finally destroyed the program. :evil:
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby titanmike » Wed May 09, 2018 7:27 am

StJoeUofD wrote:Someone needs to let Villanova know that they should stop beating those big public universities. It just isn't right for a Catholic school to do that. ;)


He said in Michigan
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu May 10, 2018 7:50 pm

Bump!!

We can not let this die, VOWELS MUST GO!!!!! It doesn't mater if he has finally hired someone he must GO!!!
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Re: Fire Vowels please

Postby StJoeUofD » Thu May 10, 2018 10:12 pm

You cannot change the "culture" from the bottom. "Culture is lead from the top. To change the essence of Titan sports will require a change at the top. If Garibaldi is leading the culture, he needs to go. If the culture is coming from the AD then Vowels needs to go. If they both have the same attitudes and ideas, then they both need to go (assuming sports is the major criteria - which isn't my personal opinion). Most likely only the names will change if Vowels stays. Management 101.
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