Bronkema

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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titans03 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:26 am

Fair enough. You’re right I didn’t watch Ferris last year. And saying 20-30 points is an overreaction, but considering they beat us by 10 two years ago, I don’t think it’s far fetched to say they would have beaten us 7 times out of 10. But that’s besides the point.

I just don’t think pulling Kelser and 1 MAYBE 2 more kids from their roster is a bad thing. Ya they might only be average HL players, but at this point, that’s the best we’re getting.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titan Jim » Fri May 11, 2018 8:34 am

upbasketballfan wrote:Have you watched Ferris play? I have, 6 times this year, and I think they might have beat us 3 out of ten and that was with BA coaching.


Out of curiosity, what were your observations? What did the team look like? How did Bronkema do?
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Rogobob77 » Fri May 11, 2018 8:58 am

If the preliminary reports are true that Bronkema is the pick, perhaps the only thing remaining before an official announcement can be made is completion of the pre-employment background check. My understanding is that the one generally used by the University is somewhat basic (includes standard database criminal check, verification of employment and educational credentials, etc.), but can take a couple of days. Perhaps that gets wrapped up today or soon and there can be a press conference early next week, ideally Monday. I believe next Wednesday is the last day for D1 schools to sign recruits to LOIs, so the sooner the better.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri May 11, 2018 10:46 am

I felt Bronk's substitutions and time outs were pretty much right on. He did use his bench quite a bit and it seemed to be fairly deep. Ferris like U-D could not defend the three or stop penetration from good guards and he and his team seemed to have trouble against good guard play. Hankins was usually the best player on the floor and if he played well they won easily but everything he did was almost matched by an opposing guard. His defense tended to grab a lot and for the most part got away with it. At Houghton they didn't have an answer for Tech's Monroe who dropped in over 30 against them. Hankins had a bad game and they almost got beat. At Lake State they did get beat and Hankins had a bad game. Had trouble with Lake ST. guard Williams as no one could stay in front of him. Northern had a soph. guard Echols who pretty much did what he wanted to against them and went for 30 and mid twenties against them.Again they couldn't defend or stay in front of him. So to me it pretty much looked like what I was watching at Calihan just a little more sharing by the players but pretty much the same problems on D. When I was watching Ferris I could not help but think that the guards in the Horizon would tear this team apart and the D looked pretty much like what we had except for a little more buy in and Ferris did have a leader in Hankins. I think McFolley or Allen could have been his equal in leadership if not for the coaching.All three games up here I think Ferris trailed at the half and adjustments were not implemented to stop opposing guards. Closing out on the shooters was poor and ability to stay in front was weak.
Last edited by upbasketballfan on Fri May 11, 2018 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titans03 » Fri May 11, 2018 10:55 am

I think it's important to once again point out that his team lost to MSU by 8 last year. How much would we have lost to MSU by? probably 5 or 6 times that
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Re: Bronkema

Postby udballer » Fri May 11, 2018 10:56 am

upbasketballfan wrote:I felt Bronk's substitutions and time outs were pretty much right on. His did use his bench quite a bit and it seemed to be fairly deep. Ferris like U-D could not defend the three or stop penetration from good guards and he and his team seemed to have trouble against good guard play. Hankins was usually the best player on the floor and if he played well they won easily but everything he did was almost matched by an opposing guard. His defense tended to grab a lot and for the most part got away with it. At Houghton they didn't have an answer for Tech's Monroe who dropped in over 30 against them. Hankins had a bad game and they almost got beat. At Lake State they did get beat and Hankins had a bad game. Had trouble with Lake ST. guard Williams as no one could stay in front of him. Northern had a soph. guard Echols who went pretty much did what he wanted to against them and went for 30 and mid twenties against them.Again they couldn't defend or stay in front of him. So to me it pretty much looked like what I was watching at Calihan just a little more sharing by the players but pretty much the same problems on D. When I was watching Ferris I could not help but think that the guards in the Horizon would tear this team apart and the D looked pretty much like what we had except for a little more buy in and Ferris did have a leader in Hankins. I think McFolley or Allen could have been his equal in leadership if not for the coaching.All three game up here I think Ferris trailed at the half and ajustments were not implimented to stop opposing guards. Closing out on the shooters was poor and ability to stay in front was weak.


Sounds promising.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri May 11, 2018 11:56 am

Titans03 wrote:I think it's important to once again point out that his team lost to MSU by 8 last year. How much would we have lost to MSU by? probably 5 or 6 times that


That has nothing to do with what the out come of another game would be. For example against Wayne State Ferris was only up by 2 at home with 1:29 to go, Wayne State missed a bunny and Hankins blocked the put back. Does that mean that Wayne State is with in 10pts. of State? No! Remember we beat ST. Louis, with JJ as coach, and they beat Virginia Tech by 6, Murray State, Dayton and Duquesne. How did we do against Tech and Murray State? Do you think we would have beaten Dayton or Duquesne? Your logic dos not work but if your logic is true, then you would have to admit that JJ is a really good coach. What is you thoughts on a coach coming from a National Championship team who I believe pu fewer buts in the seats than BA did with almost 3 times the student body and probably 10 times our number living on a campus with 880 beautiful acres.
Last edited by upbasketballfan on Fri May 11, 2018 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titan Andrew » Fri May 11, 2018 12:00 pm

udballer wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:I felt Bronk's substitutions and time outs were pretty much right on. His did use his bench quite a bit and it seemed to be fairly deep. Ferris like U-D could not defend the three or stop penetration from good guards and he and his team seemed to have trouble against good guard play. Hankins was usually the best player on the floor and if he played well they won easily but everything he did was almost matched by an opposing guard. His defense tended to grab a lot and for the most part got away with it. At Houghton they didn't have an answer for Tech's Monroe who dropped in over 30 against them. Hankins had a bad game and they almost got beat. At Lake State they did get beat and Hankins had a bad game. Had trouble with Lake ST. guard Williams as no one could stay in front of him. Northern had a soph. guard Echols who went pretty much did what he wanted to against them and went for 30 and mid twenties against them.Again they couldn't defend or stay in front of him. So to me it pretty much looked like what I was watching at Calihan just a little more sharing by the players but pretty much the same problems on D. When I was watching Ferris I could not help but think that the guards in the Horizon would tear this team apart and the D looked pretty much like what we had except for a little more buy in and Ferris did have a leader in Hankins. I think McFolley or Allen could have been his equal in leadership if not for the coaching.All three game up here I think Ferris trailed at the half and ajustments were not implimented to stop opposing guards. Closing out on the shooters was poor and ability to stay in front was weak.


Sounds promising.


After reading this you would have thought that Ferris was a mid to lower level GLIAC team... :roll:
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Re: Bronkema

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri May 11, 2018 12:11 pm

Titan Andrew wrote:
udballer wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:I felt Bronk's substitutions and time outs were pretty much right on. His did use his bench quite a bit and it seemed to be fairly deep. Ferris like U-D could not defend the three or stop penetration from good guards and he and his team seemed to have trouble against good guard play. Hankins was usually the best player on the floor and if he played well they won easily but everything he did was almost matched by an opposing guard. His defense tended to grab a lot and for the most part got away with it. At Houghton they didn't have an answer for Tech's Monroe who dropped in over 30 against them. Hankins had a bad game and they almost got beat. At Lake State they did get beat and Hankins had a bad game. Had trouble with Lake ST. guard Williams as no one could stay in front of him. Northern had a soph. guard Echols who went pretty much did what he wanted to against them and went for 30 and mid twenties against them.Again they couldn't defend or stay in front of him. So to me it pretty much looked like what I was watching at Calihan just a little more sharing by the players but pretty much the same problems on D. When I was watching Ferris I could not help but think that the guards in the Horizon would tear this team apart and the D looked pretty much like what we had except for a little more buy in and Ferris did have a leader in Hankins. I think McFolley or Allen could have been his equal in leadership if not for the coaching.All three game up here I think Ferris trailed at the half and ajustments were not implimented to stop opposing guards. Closing out on the shooters was poor and ability to stay in front was weak.


Sounds promising.


After reading this you would have thought that Ferris was a mid to lower level GLIAC team... :roll:


I think without Hankins they very well might be a mid level GLIAC team this year. We think we will be lucky to get Bronk but Bronk might be getting out just on time. They will still have to identify the shooters and close out but then they will still get beat off of the dribble until they learn to play tight.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titans03 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:34 pm

So why is the d2 guy from Indy so much better then? He's had less success than Bronkema
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Re: Bronkema

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Fri May 11, 2018 12:55 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
Titan Andrew wrote:
After reading this you would have thought that Ferris was a mid to lower level GLIAC team... :roll:


I think without Hankins they very well might be a mid level GLIAC team this year. We think we will be lucky to get Bronk but Bronk might be getting out just on time. They will still have to identify the shooters and close out but then they will still get beat off of the dribble until they learn to play tight.


You can say that about any team if you take the best player off? Would we have been as good without Ray Jr. in 2012? Chicago without Jordan or Pippen? Cleveland without Lebron? So Bronk is a bad coach because he had one very good player, I am sure if you take off any of the other 3 double digit scorers they would not have been up there in the GLIAC. Now your comments on defense are interesting but you obviously are focused on the negatives, how was the defense in the games they won or against MSU?
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titans03 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:56 pm

Is Erik Spoelstra as good as a coach without LeBron?
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Re: Bronkema

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri May 11, 2018 1:25 pm

DetroitBASKETBALL wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:
Titan Andrew wrote:
After reading this you would have thought that Ferris was a mid to lower level GLIAC team... :roll:


I think without Hankins they very well might be a mid level GLIAC team this year. We think we will be lucky to get Bronk but Bronk might be getting out just on time. They will still have to identify the shooters and close out but then they will still get beat off of the dribble until they learn to play tight.


You can say that about any team if you take the best player off? Would we have been as good without Ray Jr. in 2012? Chicago without Jordan or Pippen? Cleveland without Lebron? So Bronk is a bad coach because he had one very good player, I am sure if you take off any of the other 3 double digit scorers they would not have been up there in the GLIAC. Now your comments on defense are interesting but you obviously are focused on the negatives, how was the defense in the games they won or against MSU?


I happen to think we would have been every bit as good if not better without Ray Jr. I felt there were players on that team who were as good but unfortunately they were not showcased. I disagree with most on that point I think a lot of Eli's foul problems were Ray JR's defense. I felt Minnerath and Calliste should have been the go to guys. One of the things that I didn't like about Ray's coaching was Ray JR. and him putting himself into games after his father had pulled him. Yes he won a few games but he lost just as many jacking up a three at the buzzer when other teams would back off and force him left. He was a confident player but the problems he had then he still has. DB your comparisons are like comparing a Kia to a Lamborgini. The reason I think Ferris will not be as good this year in the GLIAC is because with the exception of the Morgan kid at M.Tech the rest of the players who gave Ferris problems are back and the timing is perfect for Bronk to make his move. How many 30+ and 1 seasons are you going to have as a coach.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri May 11, 2018 2:14 pm

Titans03 wrote:So why is the d2 guy from Indy so much better then? He's had less success than Bronkema


Gouard does have some D1 experience and has been the Indy coach for 10 yrs. He took over a really bad program and made it a good program and has had 9 winning seasons in a row. He was an assistant to Bruce Pearl who I think is a more accomplished coach than Bill Sall who I do not think much of. Gouards winning percentage at Indianapolis is 65% and that includes a bad first season. Bronks winning % at Ferris is 75% including this year and never having to go from scratch which is where we are at. Bronk was handed a winning program that was being run by an average coach. True Bronk was the assist. I personally think the Indianapolis area and Northern Indiana is one of the most fertile areas for high school basketball in the country.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Titan Andrew » Fri May 11, 2018 2:14 pm

upbasketballfan wrote: I happen to think we would have been every bit as good if not better without Ray Jr.


So you take away a rather unselfish NBA-level player from a Horizon League team and they are the same, if not better? It's difficult to take comments like this seriously.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Fri May 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Titans03 wrote:Is Erik Spoelstra as good as a coach without LeBron?


His coaching has nothing to do with Lebron, his wins yes. He is better than some and worse than others as a coach, at least they made it into the playoffs without Lebron this year. Plus Bronkema had to identify and attract that talent, he might not have been a 30+ wins this year, but I think his team would have been far from a cellar dweller like our team has been in the Horizon. By the way how come you did not ask about Phil Jackson being a good coach without Jordan?
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Re: Bronkema

Postby upbasketballfan » Fri May 11, 2018 4:19 pm

Titan Andrew wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote: I happen to think we would have been every bit as good if not better without Ray Jr.


So you take away a rather unselfish NBA-level player from a Horizon League team and they are the same, if not better? It's difficult to take comments like this seriously.


I am not sure what you mean by rather unselfish. We both I assume watched the same games as I didn't miss many. I think a player who is pulled by the coach and then puts himself back in is selfish. I think a player that jacks up a three when two other guys are wide open is selfish especially when one of them is a better shot. I think a player who pulls himself while his team is down and then his sub starts to do well and the team starts a comeback so he puts himself back in is selfish and thinking of himself not the team. If you didn't see these things maybe you were wearing pct's glasses. Watch more than the ball at a game and you might learn something. Ray seemed like a pretty good guy. He had a lot of confidence, was not afraid of the moment and was a very hard worker, but the moment was not always his.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Fri May 11, 2018 4:22 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
Titan Andrew wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote: I happen to think we would have been every bit as good if not better without Ray Jr.


So you take away a rather unselfish NBA-level player from a Horizon League team and they are the same, if not better? It's difficult to take comments like this seriously.


I am not sure what you mean by rather unselfish. We both I assume watched the same games as I didn't miss many. I think a player who is pulled by the coach and then puts himself back in is selfish. i think a player that jacks up a three when two other guys are wide open is selfish especially when one of them is a better shot. I think a player who pulls himself while his team is down and then his sub starts to do well and the team starts a comeback so he puts himself back in is selfish and thinking of himself not the team. If you didn't see these things maybe you were wearing pct's glasses. Watch more than the ball at a game and you might learn something


Haha, it makes it hard to take anything you say UP seriously. We would have been a better team without a McDonalds All American, that went in the second round, got us a Horizon League Championship, yeah bud I think anything you say it this point is irrelevant from a basketball standpoint.
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Re: Bronkema

Postby Rogobob77 » Fri May 11, 2018 4:27 pm

Rogobob77 wrote:Keep in mind that in the absence of good communication, rumors (often inaccurate) fill the vacuum.

The latest from Coaching Changes now says Bronk not coming. “Welp! Detroit Mercy thought they had their guy Andy Bronkema.......rumor has it that he turned it down (I was suprised he was considering it) Vowels has to be looking like this...... he can't miss anymore....... got to talk to people he knows will take the job. SMH #circus”
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Re: Bronkema

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Fri May 11, 2018 4:33 pm

Rogobob77 wrote:
Rogobob77 wrote:Keep in mind that in the absence of good communication, rumors (often inaccurate) fill the vacuum.

The latest from Coaching Changes now says Bronk not coming. “Welp! Detroit Mercy thought they had their guy Andy Bronkema.......rumor has it that he turned it down (I was suprised he was considering it) Vowels has to be looking like this...... he can't miss anymore....... got to talk to people he knows will take the job. SMH #circus”


Lets just hire Pitino and get it over with, no matter what Vowels does people are going to be unhappy, but maybe if he makes a big enough splash with Pitino and fills Calihan he keeps his job. Then it will truly be a circus, maybe a fun one!
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