Appology to AD Vowels

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Appology to AD Vowels

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:25 pm

Too early for give Vowels a raise thread considering he proved most of us wrong on this board and got a better hire than any one thought we were capable of. I love that all of the HR, AD and Basketball experts and insiders that were the nay-sayers turned out to be way wrong and we ended up getting a better coach for the program. I know many on here will not apologize to AD, but I will, sorry for all the negativity AD, I am excited for the new hire and new basketball season this was a slam dunk of a hire! Welcome Coach Davis, family and staff!
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:52 pm

Much of the negativity flows from losing. A lot flows from poor communications with alumni, donors, and season ticketholders for many years. The process itself was a PR failure, but the result looks like a walk-off HR with two outs in the 9th and two strikes on the batter. It was encouraging to see that a poster got a CAL Club mailing announcing the press conference ahead of schedule. And that the Department's new Development guy, Jason V., reached out by phone to at least two posters here, rogobob and me. That is a good start at rebuilding relationships. It won't be easy.

Mike Davis is a great hire. Experienced and successful D-1 coach who has won everywhere he has coached. Vowels merits praise for pulling it off under very trying circumstances. Now, let's look forward to success.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:05 pm

ptctitan wrote:Much of the negativity flows from losing. A lot flows from poor communications with alumni, donors, and season ticketholders for many years. The process itself was a PR failure, but the result looks like a walk-off HR with two outs in the 9th and two strikes on the batter. It was encouraging to see that a poster got a CAL Club mailing announcing the press conference ahead of schedule. And that the Department's new Development guy, Jason V., reached out by phone to at least two posters here, rogobob and me. That is a good start at rebuilding relationships. It won't be easy.

Mike Davis is a great hire. Experienced and successful D-1 coach who has won everywhere he has coached. Vowels merits praise for pulling it off under very trying circumstances. Now, let's look forward to success.

I am happy that Davis is the coach. Probably couldn't find a better hire but I will not congratulate the Administration for how this was handled. You say under the trying circumstances but the ineptness of our Administration is what created the trying circumstances. They were really lucky to get Davis at such a late date. Do we continue to reward and pay for stupidity? What do we do congratulate the luck and ineptness or get rid of them. If you have an employee that just about costs you your business do you keep him or broom him? I am all in on "Get no Mercy give no Mercy".
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:20 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:I am happy that Davis is the coach. Probably couldn't find a better hire but I will not congratulate the Administration for how this was handled. You say under the trying circumstances but the ineptness of our Administration is what created the trying circumstances. They were really lucky to get Davis at such a late date. Do we continue to reward and pay for stupidity? What do we do congratulate the luck and ineptness or get rid of them. If you have an employee that just about costs you your business do you keep him or broom him? I am all in on "Get no Mercy give no Mercy".


I recall the adage, "Better to be lucky than good." ;) upBBfan - before I could answer your question, I want to know why the process went the way it did this year. Whether or not the trying circumstances all were self-inflicted by Vowels remains unknown at this time. We'll have a lot of months to deconstruct the process and take the steps needed to ensure that it never happens again in a total information vacuum. I simply noted a couple of things being done right today to start the process of introducing the new coach to the alumni, fan base, and donors. Those kind of steps should be encouraged so that the Department does more of them in the future.

As to the new slogan, how about Damman Hardware's' original ad in the Titan program after the merger was first announced. "Show 'em no Mercy, Titans." :D
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:26 pm

ptctitan wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:I am happy that Davis is the coach. Probably couldn't find a better hire but I will not congratulate the Administration for how this was handled. You say under the trying circumstances but the ineptness of our Administration is what created the trying circumstances. They were really lucky to get Davis at such a late date. Do we continue to reward and pay for stupidity? What do we do congratulate the luck and ineptness or get rid of them. If you have an employee that just about costs you your business do you keep him or broom him? I am all in on "Get no Mercy give no Mercy".


I recall the adage, "Better to be lucky than good." ;) upBBfan - before I could answer your question, I want to know why the process went the way it did this year. Whether or not the trying circumstances all were self-inflicted by Vowels remains unknown at this time. We'll have a lot of months to deconstruct the process and take the steps needed to ensure that it never happens again in a total information vacuum. I simply noted a couple of things being done right today to start the process of introducing the new coach to the alumni, fan base, and donors. Those kind of steps should be encouraged so that the Department does more of them in the future.

As to the new slogan, how about Damman Hardware's' original ad in the Titan program after the merger was first announced. "Show 'em no Mercy, Titans." :D

I think it is better to be good. I like consistency.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:33 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:
ptctitan wrote:
upbasketballfan wrote:I am happy that Davis is the coach. Probably couldn't find a better hire but I will not congratulate the Administration for how this was handled. You say under the trying circumstances but the ineptness of our Administration is what created the trying circumstances. They were really lucky to get Davis at such a late date. Do we continue to reward and pay for stupidity? What do we do congratulate the luck and ineptness or get rid of them. If you have an employee that just about costs you your business do you keep him or broom him? I am all in on "Get no Mercy give no Mercy".


I recall the adage, "Better to be lucky than good." ;) upBBfan - before I could answer your question, I want to know why the process went the way it did this year. Whether or not the trying circumstances all were self-inflicted by Vowels remains unknown at this time. We'll have a lot of months to deconstruct the process and take the steps needed to ensure that it never happens again in a total information vacuum. I simply noted a couple of things being done right today to start the process of introducing the new coach to the alumni, fan base, and donors. Those kind of steps should be encouraged so that the Department does more of them in the future.

As to the new slogan, how about Damman Hardware's' original ad in the Titan program after the merger was first announced. "Show 'em no Mercy, Titans." :D

I think it is better to be good. I like consistency.


I gotta say, if something is wrong its Vowels or Garibaldis fault, if something goes well they got lucky. How do you know its ineptness, were you there, are you aware of how negotiations went? How about thank the AD for getting a coach no one thought we could get and tell him good job on this, I am not giving him a pass on communication, time, Metro Series or anything else. Lets roll up the sleeves and go to work. Get Er Done
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby TitanVoiceofReason » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:07 pm

A big thank you to our AD, Robert Vowels. This is our best hire since Perry Watson.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby R.B.J1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:47 pm

I think Vowels should apologize to the fans and alumni. The search was excruciatingly long. I am happy that Mike Davis is our new coach.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby udballer » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm

R.B.J1 wrote:I think Vowels should apologize to the fans and alumni. The search was excruciatingly long. I am happy that Mike Davis is our new coach.


Word. There is no prerequisite that in order to hire a good coach it must take historically long. Davis is an excellent coach and we should be glad to have him. Detroit Mercy and his new salary are a step up, so he should be happy to be here. Despite the excellent hire, I don't feel very lucky to have Vowels.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby 77-85Titan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:35 pm

R.B.J1 wrote:I think Vowels should apologize to the fans and alumni. The search was excruciatingly long. I am happy that Mike Davis is our new coach.


I completely agree. The lack of accountability or openness was astounding.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby DetroitBASKETBALL » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:40 pm

77-85Titan wrote:
R.B.J1 wrote:I think Vowels should apologize to the fans and alumni. The search was excruciatingly long. I am happy that Mike Davis is our new coach.


I completely agree. The lack of accountability or openness was astounding.


You want him to update you on everyone he interviews and broadcast to the people's current employers that they want out? Accountability to who? His boss is Dr. Garibaldi, how do you know if Vowels was held accountable by him or not?
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:10 pm

If the result of this long search turns us into a competitive team by the 2019-20 season, then the length of the search becomes less important. The 2018-19 Titans were going to face adversity even if we kept the two signees, signed the two offers, and kept Chatman. But Vowels needs to address the length of the search, in general, during tomorrow's press conference. Also, we'll get to hear Davis on why he took this job given the 6 scholarship slots to fill. Maybe we'll learn some things that we did not know during the preceding 80 days.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby R.B.J1 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:21 pm

DetroitBASKETBALL wrote:
77-85Titan wrote:
R.B.J1 wrote:I think Vowels should apologize to the fans and alumni. The search was excruciatingly long. I am happy that Mike Davis is our new coach.


I completely agree. The lack of accountability or openness was astounding.


You want him to update you on everyone he interviews and broadcast to the people's current employers that they want out? Accountability to who? His boss is Dr. Garibaldi, how do you know if Vowels was held accountable by him or not?


Of course he shouldn't tell us who he is interviewing, etc. However, there is a way that he can strategically leak certain info to keep the fan base happy. Why not give Tony Paul or Perry Farrell an interview or return their calls? How about answering emails? Vowels is definitely not a fan friendly Athletic Director.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ExcitedTitan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:18 am

I think you have much of this backwards DetroitBASKETBALL. Davis' name was put out there fairly early, and I don't think anyone thought he was too good for us or unattainable. A move from TexSo to the HL was a move up for him. He wasn't the first person we offered the job too either (Barbee). Davis appears to be a pretty good hire and should bring some fresh air to Calihan. Were there better guys out there? Maybe. Maybe not. Was hiring Davis a huge coup? No. He's someone we should have been going after from the minute BA was fired, if not sooner, and someone we should have got with at least a little time to recruit during the signing period.

And just because he ended up with what appears to be a decent coach doesn't mean the process didn't cause damage. There's that poll that said few will forget what a poor job Vowels did with this process. It was a mess and we were a laughing stock, and our administration looked inept. The process should never have taken that long.

Further, Vowels put us in this mess by hiring Bacari. The warning signs were there and ignored or just negligently missed. And keeping JJ on was another bad mistake.

Finally, there is everything else he has not done in the past 5 years. Our program is in shambles and much worse than when he got here. His 5 year plan was nice, but he has not accomplished much of it. Attendance dropped off a cliff. The Titan Club hasn't done anything. The TC room has changed for the worse. There is no game experience. Most other sports struggle. There are may unfilled positions in the department. One good hire doesn't change all that.
Last edited by ExcitedTitan on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 am

ExcitedTitan wrote:I think you have much of this backwards DetroitBASKETBALL. Davis' name was put out there fairly early, and I don't think anyone thought he was too good for us or unattainable. A move from TexSo to the HL was a move up for him. He wasn't the first person we offered the job too either (Barbee). Davis appears to be a pretty good hire and should bring some fresh air to Calihan. Were there better guys out there? Maybe. Maybe not. Was hiring Davis a huge coup? No. He's someone we should have been going after from the minute BA was fired, if not sooner, and someone we should have got with at least a little time to recruit during the signing period.

And just because he ended up with what appears to be a decent coach doesn't mean the process caused damage. There's that poll that said few will forget what a poor job Vowels did with this process. It was a mess and we were a laughing stock, and our administration looked inept. The process should never have taken that long.

Further, Vowels put us in this mess by hiring Bacari. The warning signs were there and ignored or just negligently missed. And keeping JJ on was another bad mistake.

Finally, there is everything else he has not done in the past 5 years. Our program is in shambles and much worse than when he got here. His 5 year plan was nice, but he has not accomplished much of it. Attendance dropped off a cliff. The Titan Club hasn't done anything. The TC room has changed for the worse. There is no game experience. Most other sports struggle. There are may unfilled positions in the department. One good hire doesn't change all that.


+1000 It amazes me how may fair weather fans seem to have gathered at Liv. & 6. I have been wondering for awhile if they have a class down there that produces people who seem to flutter with every wisp of breeze that comes along.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:26 am

How about we listen to what is said today. And what is not said today. Then, we can add those statements to the other objective facts that are known.

Winning along with a more fan friendly AD can appear to solve a lot of problems. But it also can obscure other negative things percolating beneath the surface like it did here in 2011-12 and 2012-13. For the 2015-16 season, our men's BB team APR was 900. And the 4-yr average was 941. That put us close to NCAA penalties. So, when the university's press release announcing Davis points to his several years at TSU with perfect 1000 APR's, we should take notice why that is being cited.

Yesterday, the Athletic Department personally reached out to over 100 key donors and fans about this hire. It also used social media to inform its followers. All before the sports reporters got their tweets and articles posted. This board had the news before the media. And, it appears that beginning last week, the AD and members of his department were communicating with Tony Paul and other members of the media to keep the public informed. Instead of griping about what has already happened, we should encourage the AD to continue and expand these outreach efforts from here forward.

I don't really care about an apology going in either direction here. But I do want improved results. The hire of Davis and the seeds of better fan and media outreach are first steps in a better direction.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby titanmike » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:41 am

ptctitan wrote:How about we listen to what is said today. And what is not said today. Then, we can add those statements to the other objective facts that are known.

Winning along with a more fan friendly AD can appear to solve a lot of problems. But it also can obscure other negative things percolating beneath the surface like it did here in 2011-12 and 2012-13. For the 2015-16 season, our men's BB team APR was 900. And the 4-yr average was 941. That put us close to NCAA penalties. So, when the university's press release announcing Davis points to his several years at TSU with perfect 1000 APR's, we should take notice why that is being cited.

Yesterday, the Athletic Department personally reached out to over 100 key donors and fans about this hire. It also used social media to inform its followers. All before the sports reporters got their tweets and articles posted. This board had the news before the media. And, it appears that beginning last week, the AD and members of his department were communicating with Tony Paul and other members of the media to keep the public informed. Instead of griping about what has already happened, we should encourage the AD to continue and expand these outreach efforts from here forward.

I don't really care about an apology going in either direction here. But I do want improved results. The hire of Davis and the seeds of better fan and media outreach are first steps in a better direction.


I guess I am not one of the 100
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby udballer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:03 am

titanmike wrote:
ptctitan wrote:How about we listen to what is said today. And what is not said today. Then, we can add those statements to the other objective facts that are known.

Winning along with a more fan friendly AD can appear to solve a lot of problems. But it also can obscure other negative things percolating beneath the surface like it did here in 2011-12 and 2012-13. For the 2015-16 season, our men's BB team APR was 900. And the 4-yr average was 941. That put us close to NCAA penalties. So, when the university's press release announcing Davis points to his several years at TSU with perfect 1000 APR's, we should take notice why that is being cited.

Yesterday, the Athletic Department personally reached out to over 100 key donors and fans about this hire. It also used social media to inform its followers. All before the sports reporters got their tweets and articles posted. This board had the news before the media. And, it appears that beginning last week, the AD and members of his department were communicating with Tony Paul and other members of the media to keep the public informed. Instead of griping about what has already happened, we should encourage the AD to continue and expand these outreach efforts from here forward.

I don't really care about an apology going in either direction here. But I do want improved results. The hire of Davis and the seeds of better fan and media outreach are first steps in a better direction.


I guess I am not one of the 100


Which would be another knock on the athletic department if they reached out to 100 "key donors and fans" and none were you. It must have been the other 100 guys in the stands, Mike. They must have called book guy instead.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby titanmike » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:13 am

udballer wrote:
titanmike wrote:
ptctitan wrote:How about we listen to what is said today. And what is not said today. Then, we can add those statements to the other objective facts that are known.

Winning along with a more fan friendly AD can appear to solve a lot of problems. But it also can obscure other negative things percolating beneath the surface like it did here in 2011-12 and 2012-13. For the 2015-16 season, our men's BB team APR was 900. And the 4-yr average was 941. That put us close to NCAA penalties. So, when the university's press release announcing Davis points to his several years at TSU with perfect 1000 APR's, we should take notice why that is being cited.

Yesterday, the Athletic Department personally reached out to over 100 key donors and fans about this hire. It also used social media to inform its followers. All before the sports reporters got their tweets and articles posted. This board had the news before the media. And, it appears that beginning last week, the AD and members of his department were communicating with Tony Paul and other members of the media to keep the public informed. Instead of griping about what has already happened, we should encourage the AD to continue and expand these outreach efforts from here forward.

I don't really care about an apology going in either direction here. But I do want improved results. The hire of Davis and the seeds of better fan and media outreach are first steps in a better direction.


I guess I am not one of the 100


Which would be another knock on the athletic department if they reached out to 100 "key donors and fans" and none were you. It must have been the other 100 guys in the stands, Mike. They must have called book guy instead.


I suggest that they do, but I would also have asked book guy to put the book away and all cellular devices.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby NC Titan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:21 am

Hey, leave Book Guy alone. He's at every home game, and he only brings out the book during timeouts.

Interesting Book Guy fact: His hobby is attending a game at every D1 school, and he's pretty close -- except that new schools become D1 every year so his list keeps growing. And those new schools all seem to be in the Southwest these days.
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