Appology to AD Vowels

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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:40 am

Apparently someone reached out to titanmike before someone else reached out to the others because he told us yesterday that this press conference was coming very soon before rogobob posted about what he saw on Facebook. This board had the news long before the >100.

And if you are going to nitpick every effort in the right direction, then what's the point.

If Mike Davis produces good results, then this hire will be a good one and something that can be built upon.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby titanmike » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:41 am

NC Titan wrote:Hey, leave Book Guy alone. He's at every home game, and he only brings out the book during timeouts.

Interesting Book Guy fact: His hobby is attending a game at every D1 school, and he's pretty close -- except that new schools become D1 every year so his list keeps growing. And those new schools all seem to be in the Southwest these days.


I love book guy, no disrespect meant.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:43 am

I want a crowd so large that Book Guy does not stand out because there are lots of fans in his way.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby titanmac » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am

+1 ptc
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby udballer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:47 am

titanmike wrote:
NC Titan wrote:Hey, leave Book Guy alone. He's at every home game, and he only brings out the book during timeouts.

Interesting Book Guy fact: His hobby is attending a game at every D1 school, and he's pretty close -- except that new schools become D1 every year so his list keeps growing. And those new schools all seem to be in the Southwest these days.


I love book guy, no disrespect meant.


I also love book guy. I just closed my eyes and tried to picture who was in the stands. :)
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby uofdfan1983 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:37 pm

1) I knew this was going to happen about a week before it was announced. Read what I wrote on this Board. That' wasn't a guess; that was from good information. As I've said before, sometimes you just gotta trust the process. It took a long time. That sucked. We lost Corey Allen. That sucked. But we went out and got a big-time coach. We are U-D. We have struggled on the court in recent years, and had all kinds of internal problems that have dragged us down. McCallum didn't understand our Program, Bacari was not mature enough to run the Program. Let's hope Davis "gets" who we are and what we are all about. I truly believe we will be back. Bank it. We will bring back the glory. If you don't believe it, why do you hang around?
2) We are so much better of a job than Texas Southern it isn't funny. We are the BEST job in our crappy league, which is way better than TSU's even crappier league. We went out and put money down on Mike Davis. Would OU do that? Answer = NO. They would have had complaints about "spending too much money on a basketball coach". We are private, the only private school in our league. We get to underpay our softball coach so that we can overpay (in some people's minds) for a mens basketball coach. We are the only quality academic school in our league. The only school with a Dave DeBusschere, Spencer Haywood, Terry Tyler, John Long, Dickie V......
3) Give Vowels a chance to improve his communication, now that the ordeal is over. If he doesn't do that, give him hell. But you are either a part of the answer, or part of the problem. Choose which side you want to take.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby TitanTarHeel » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:23 pm

It's very interesting, if you listen to the 10 minute interview on Fox2 website (posted in another thread) Davis had some intriguing remarks around the 4 minute mark. He talked about Vowels 'taking hits' during the process and how Vowels stayed strong and didn't leak any information along the way.

Is Coach Davis reading this board?? His comments suggest it might be possible given how loud it was on here ragging AD Vowels (myself included on this and the other board).

I love the hire and am pretty fired up. But dang, I just wish this could've happened 2 months ago and not have us all go thru so much consternation and frustration over things.

I'm with Tom -- I'm in, all in, Go Titans!
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:28 pm

I think you give credit where credit is due. Vowels landed, IMO, the best possible candidate in the country. I don't mean that hyperbolically. Out of all the guys in the country who might have considered the UDM job, Davis was the best because of his proven track record of winning everywhere he goes, his totally unconventional (but brilliant) scheduling strategy that no one else does, and reputation. And the 3 star recruit son tagging along? It's not a home-run hire. It's a grand slam.

Vowels still has a long road back though to earn total respect of the fan base. Just looking at MBB. Ok, he has Davis now. I think we most likely will get an NCAA tourney appearance in the coming four years (something I thought impossible only weeks ago). But now Vowels needs to adapt to the Davis agenda. Sure, we might dance. But what if we go into the dance as a 13 win team and get blown out playing in the first 4 as a 16 seed? Does that start to build momentum? Honestly, I don't know. It doesn't appear to me that TSU has amassed a huge MBB fan base the past six years despite the tourney appearances. I base this off attendance numbers and very small online following of the team. Of course, we are not TSU and maybe it wouldn't take nearly as much to spark a fire with UDM fans. The foundation are history are there.

At any rate, kudos to Vowels. I hope he and the staff use the imminent success on the court (it is coming) to build the fan base and engage the students. That's something that was never done very well in 2012.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 pm

I have watched as many of the pressers as I could and it does look like Vowels has been on Davis for awhile and it sounds like we got Davis because of Vowels. I grudgingly apologize to Vowels and Garibaldi and thank them for what looks like a very good hire. I feel bad that we lost Corey who I think Davis would have done a really nice job with. I'm also glad Earl won't have to talk about Bacardi any longer. It was sounding like he was doing a lot of drinking trying to put up with the bad basketball he was watching.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby udballer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:25 pm

Where would we be if Vowels and Davis weren't formerly neighbors?
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby R.B.J1 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:21 am

udballer wrote:Where would we be if Vowels and Davis weren't formerly neighbors?


I think Bronkema would be our coach or the DII coach from Indy.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ExcitedTitan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:51 am

R.B.J1 wrote:
udballer wrote:Where would we be if Vowels and Davis weren't formerly neighbors?


I think Bronkema would be our coach or the DII coach from Indy.

There are a lot of coaches out there. We would not have gone with a DII coach.

Someone said Stan Heath was the other finalist. I heard Tony Barbee turned us down. Dwayne Stevens was strongly considered again. The Cal State Bakersfield coach was looked at. I am sure there were many others like these guys. So what I am saying is there are a lot of guys out there, and there were other decent options other than Zeigler, or a DII coach. I think Davis is a great option, and probably the best. Hopefully our second (or 3rd, 4th,...?) choice works out as well or better than Ray, our 2nd choice back then, and our first choice last time.

I can't wait to see how this team plays.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby ptctitan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:59 am

Tacitus651 wrote:Vowels still has a long road back though to earn total respect of the fan base. Just looking at MBB. Ok, he has Davis now. I think we most likely will get an NCAA tourney appearance in the coming four years (something I thought impossible only weeks ago). But now Vowels needs to adapt to the Davis agenda. Sure, we might dance. But what if we go into the dance as a 13 win team and get blown out playing in the first 4 as a 16 seed? Does that start to build momentum? Honestly, I don't know. It doesn't appear to me that TSU has amassed a huge MBB fan base the past six years despite the tourney appearances. I base this off attendance numbers and very small online following of the team. Of course, we are not TSU and maybe it wouldn't take nearly as much to spark a fire with UDM fans. The foundation are history are there.


Good points. I think it would be easy to triple or quadruple our actual attendance at home games if our on-court product recovered only to the level of the post-NCAA McCallum teams. Also, if we played only 1 or 2 D-1 non-con home games each year, that could boost attendance simply because the supply of available home games would be limited and presumably Davis would have a much better product on the floor.

The experience of the Vitale era suggests that fan growth would come in a series of steps over several seasons rather than all at once. The university's initial goal ought to be modest - get home attendance back to 2,000 per game. And then build from that point.

udballer wrote:Where would we be if Vowels and Davis weren't formerly neighbors?


Stan Heath - if you believe Terry Foster.

upbasketballfan wrote:I have watched as many of the pressers as I could and it does look like Vowels has been on Davis for awhile and it sounds like we got Davis because of Vowels. I grudgingly apologize to Vowels and Garibaldi and thank them for what looks like a very good hire. I feel bad that we lost Corey who I think Davis would have done a really nice job with. I'm also glad Earl won't have to talk about Bacardi any longer. It was sounding like he was doing a lot of drinking trying to put up with the bad basketball he was watching.


Good point. I think in a case like this one where the university had to woo the prime candidate away from a position and city he liked, the university needs to learn how to communicate with its fan base without saying anything that could tip its hand as to which person it is pursuing. There are ways to say things that would have let us know that this was not a flailing search. But those suggestions are for a different day and a different topic. It appears that we reached out to Davis within weeks of Bacari's termination. And it took about one month to convince him to put his hat in the ring. Then, it took about another 3 weeks to get him to come and be interviewed. The fact that only Davis was offered the job indicates that Vowels and the committee were very focused on the right things from the beginning. And that they had made a good value judgment about the type of coach needed to improve things here. And that waiting for the best possible candidate was better than filling the job just to appear conventional.

McFolley's comments to the Free Press reporter offer a good insight into the internal team problems and why Davis turned out to be the best choice.

"I’m excited to have a coach like him, who is experienced, coached under Bob Knight, took a Texas Southern team to the tournament the past five years. I’m very excited and ready to get to work."

That quote tells me all I need to know about the past two years and why the players who choose to remain could excel.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby Commissioner » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:06 am

ptctitan wrote:
McFolley's comments to the Free Press reporter offer a good insight into the internal team problems and why Davis turned out to be the best choice.

"I’m excited to have a coach like him, who is experienced, coached under Bob Knight, took a Texas Southern team to the tournament the past five years. I’m very excited and ready to get to work."

That quote tells me all I need to know about the past two years and why the players who choose to remain could excel.

I expect a big year from Josh. I think he knows he was misused the past couple seasons, but like the Army of the Potomac, he knows he's capable of a great deal with solid leadership. I think he's primed.

I also suspect that Davis will do a better job of harnessing JJJ's talent. I still think JJ Sr. can be a good coach somewhere if he puts his mind to it, gets another assistant job somewhere, and eventually a full time head coach position. I wish he'd been made interim for the season after the SMD incident. But I do think he was a bit blinkered where his namesake was concerned. If Antoine Davis follows Dad north, we should have a solid if somewhat small 3 guard rotation.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby NC Titan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:33 am

Tacitus651 wrote:It doesn't appear to me that TSU has amassed a huge MBB fan base the past six years despite the tourney appearances.


I expect that competition for fans is pretty intense in Houston. Along with the pro sports, TxSO was competing with Univ of Houston and Rice, both long-established major programs. Add in the fact that TxSU is a historically black college and traditionally a football school, I'm not surprised.
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Re: Appology to AD Vowels

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:43 am

NC Titan wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:It doesn't appear to me that TSU has amassed a huge MBB fan base the past six years despite the tourney appearances.


I expect that competition for fans is pretty intense in Houston. Along with the pro sports, TxSO was competing with Univ of Houston and Rice, both long-established major programs. Add in the fact that TxSU is a historically black college and traditionally a football school, I'm not surprised.


Agree. We're not analogous in that regard. I have to wonder how much that influenced Davis' decision to leave. He must have been somewhat frustrated with all his success and so little support. If he coached 6 years at Detroit Mercy and had 4 NCAA appearances and an NIT, we'd probably paint over Vitale's signature and name the court after him. Plus, if we have anywhere near that kind of success I'm convinced people will show up.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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