Post-season ban

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Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed May 08, 2019 8:01 pm

“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Wed May 08, 2019 8:15 pm

Fake News! :D

I've looked at the NCAA website on APR and how it is calculated. Here's an interesting insight.

If a player in good academic standing transfers out without enrolling in another college for the next academic year, you lose all of that player's retention points. We had two players from the the 2017-18 roster who were in academic good standing but who did not enroll in a college during the past year. Y'all know who they were. If one of those players had enrolled in college for the past academic year, our APR would not have fallen under 930.

For this reason, I expect that we will appeal the penalty and have it waived. JMHO based upon my research.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed May 08, 2019 8:16 pm

Didn’t those two guys enroll in community college and chase the league?
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Wed May 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:Didn’t those two guys enroll in community college and chase the league?


No. They did not enroll in any college. That's the only way our APR could have ended up at 826 for 2017-18. The way the points are computed, there's no other explanation.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Titans96 » Thu May 09, 2019 8:09 am

The JJ curse continues...

JJ was and will continue to be a cancer wherever he goes. Look at the damage he did to the Titans, and he did the same damage to Ballantyne. The kid had opportunities to go elsewhere, and he chose to follow JJ. Now he isn't progressing toward getting a degree and he has been hanging around with JJ and JJJr in Ohio doing nothing, holding on to some lame belief (fed to them by JJ) that they actually have a chance to go pro. Plus, they caused this current academic problem for the Titans - way to go JJ (what a clown)!

Maybe this board will realize the damage our esteemed Athletic Director did to the program by forcing JJ on Ray (and Bacari).
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Thu May 09, 2019 10:00 am

Whatever mistakes in personnel decisions were made, they have been corrected. And the injustice of the APR penalty will also be corrected in the very near future.

The APR's of our other 18 teams prove that the issue is not an institutional problem at the school; e.g., the women's BB team had a perfect 1000 APR. Rather, it is an issue specific to the 2017-18 men's BB team, the unusual facts of last year's player transfers, and, the failure of the NCAA APR formula to anticipate a situation in which a player released for transfer would choose to take a year off and commit to play at his next school one year after he was released to transfer under the old transfer system. The Level 1 APR penalty would not have been triggered simply due to the academic eligibility issues that also impacted that team. Without the screwy transfer actions taken by those two players, there would have been no penalty. Whether those actions resulted from a curse or something else, it is unfair to penalize the current players and coaches because none of them were part of the 2017-18 team. The penalty does not correct the cause of the APR deficiency on the 2017-18 team.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu May 09, 2019 11:17 am

I don’t know if I’d call JJ a curse. I definitely don’t believe JJ kept those two out of school to screw up our APR (not that 96 is saying it was necessarily intentional). The whole notion of two players being in good standing academically and electing to not attend college the next year is so out of the ordinary. It’s hard to imagine the NCAA has this situation in mind when the rule was create. Ptc has been spot on with his analysis of this whole thing as far as I can tell.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Rogobob77 » Thu May 09, 2019 7:56 pm

From the Detroit News:

“Detroit Mercy men’s basketball ineligible for postseason in 2020”

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sport ... 157417001/
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Rogobob77 » Thu May 09, 2019 8:18 pm

From the Detroit Free Press:

“Detroit Mercy basketball not eligible for NCAA tournament after low APR score”

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/coll ... 156203001/

Of note, neither article in the Detroit newspapers include any mention of the University appealing the decision.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Rogobob77 » Thu May 09, 2019 8:35 pm

If I understand things correctly (and assuming the sanction remains in place), the Titans would not be eligible to participate in the 2020 MBB Horizon tournament, but FWIW could be crowned regular season league champions. That’s the status Milwaukee had in 2014-15 when they incurred a ban for failing to maintain minimum APR requirements.
Last edited by Rogobob77 on Thu May 09, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby NC Titan » Thu May 09, 2019 8:49 pm

We oughta get some points for firing the two coaches who got us into this mess.
#DetroitsCollegeTeam
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Big DWSU » Thu May 09, 2019 10:26 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu May 09, 2019 11:20 pm

Big DWSU wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


A..H...!
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri May 10, 2019 6:47 am

Rogobob77 wrote:From the Detroit Free Press:

“Detroit Mercy basketball not eligible for NCAA tournament after low APR score”

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/coll ... 156203001/

Of note, neither article in the Detroit newspapers include any mention of the University appealing the decision.


Technically, there is no decision yet to appeal. We are subject to the penalty being imposed. It is my understanding that the university believes there are extenuating and mitigating circumstances that justify a waiver of the penalty. In that same 2017-18 season, 3 of our 4 seniors, Black, Chatman, and Isaiah Jones, graduated in the May 2018 commencement ceremony. The 4th senior, Jaleel Hogan, made tremendous strides towards his degree during his 4 years here and completed his 4 years of eligibility. Remember, like the Jalen Hayes situation at Oakland a few years ago, a player can be on track for the required academic progress but not be eligible to play.

From what I have read about the APR system, the school will likely have conversations with the NCAA about a waiver. Unlike other discipline by the NCAA, this appears to be a less formal process; i.e., no formal appeal like exists when a school is sanctioned for recruiting or other violations of the NCAA's conduct rules. It's more like the process when a player or a school might request a waiver from the transfer requirement to sit out a full year.

Again, it should be remembered that the tipping point for the very low 2017-18 APR was the unusual decision of two players in academic good standing, who had requested and received their releases to transfer under the old system, not to transfer and enroll at a new college for the regular fall term in 2018. They have since committed to attend the same new university this coming season. In terms of player eligibility, they are compliant in the eyes of the NCAA for immediate eligibility in 2019-20. But on a different floor of NCAA headquarters, in the APR department, they are deemed drop-outs and their unusual transfer journey counts against our APR. Had just one of them enrolled at any place last year, our APR would have been above 930 and we would not be subject to the Level 1 penalty. Thus, even though the school has not said it will "appeal," I understand that it will seek a waiver.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby titanmike » Fri May 10, 2019 8:10 am

I am confused by one of the statements suggesting that academics was not part of the reason for the low score and ban, yet the university's statement talks about improving the academics to fix the score.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri May 10, 2019 9:00 am

titanmike wrote:I am confused by one of the statements suggesting that academics was not part of the reason for the low score and ban, yet the university's statement talks about improving the academics to fix the score.


When you seek a waiver from the NCAA over an unusual retention issue, you also want to show how you have improved your overall in-school systems so that the risk of future retention issues from purely academic reasons is less than it was in 2017-18. Also, you can show that in our other sports, the addition of these resources helped the APR's of other sports; e.g., women's BB having a perfect APR of 1000 and 7 programs exceeding 983.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby titanmike » Fri May 10, 2019 9:28 am

ptctitan wrote:
titanmike wrote:I am confused by one of the statements suggesting that academics was not part of the reason for the low score and ban, yet the university's statement talks about improving the academics to fix the score.


When you seek a waiver from the NCAA over an unusual retention issue, you also want to show how you have improved your overall in-school systems so that the risk of future retention issues from purely academic reasons is less than it was in 2017-18. Also, you can show that in our other sports, the addition of these resources helped the APR's of other sports; e.g., women's BB having a perfect APR of 1000 and 7 programs exceeding 983.


This is the statement that concerns me.

“It’s about retention,” UDM spokesman PJ Gradowski said. “It has nothing to do with academics.”
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri May 10, 2019 9:54 am

Why does that statement worry you? If the issue is more one of retention and players left because of the unusual circumstances of having coaching changes then I’d think the NCAA might look favorably and agree that we did well academically with most students that stayed.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby titanmike » Fri May 10, 2019 10:04 am

message forth coming
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri May 10, 2019 10:10 am

titanmike wrote:This is the statement that concerns me.

“It’s about retention,” UDM spokesman PJ Gradowski said. “It has nothing to do with academics.”


When the APR is calculated each semester, each player receiving athletically-related can earn a maximum of 2 points. One point is awarded to each player who is academically eligible. A second point is awarded to each player who remains in school.

I believe this is how the APR system works. But I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night; so, some of my details and assumptions may be inaccurate. When a player transfers to a new school, he costs the old school that semester's retention point. However, customarily, when that player enrolls in the new school in the next regular term, the NCAA restores that retention point to the old school's APR calculation. So, when Corey Allen transferred to Georgia State, the initial APR would read 1 of 2 points for Allen. However, when Corey enrolled at Georgia State, the other point probably was restored to our APR calculation because Corey remained in school.

In the case of last year's transfers of Jackson, Ballantyne, and T. Jones, none of them enrolled in a new college for the next regular term. Tariiq decided to pursue other options, so we lost his retention point permanently. If Jackson and Ballantyne had enrolled at their new school in the fall of 2018, their 2 retention points would have been restored to our APR calculation. Because they did not enroll in any school, but waited to choose a new school and enroll there for the 2019-20 regular term, their lost retention points were not restored to our APR calculation for 2017-18. If just one of those points had been restored to our APR calculation, then our APR score for 2017-18 would have been high enough to put us over 930 for the 4-year average.

The school's public position appears to be that our academic eligibility issues are normal; but last year's mass exodus of players due to the coaching change was above-average. And when that is coupled with the decisions of Ballantyne and Jackson not to enroll in any college last year and decide their transfer plans while taking a year off, that caused the 2017-18 APR to be so low that it caused an APR of 920. That seems to be a reasonable argument.
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