Post-season ban

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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri May 10, 2019 10:19 am

It seems very reasonable. Unless the NCAA counters that the minimum APR requirement and the rules are also meant to discourage mass exodus situations as well as bad grades/players dropping out. I suppose the NCAA could say that our program didn’t graduate enough players and derailed enough academic careers that the ban should apply. But that does seem foul and draconian considering we fired the coach mostly at fault and have made good progress in the last 12 months.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri May 10, 2019 10:51 am

We graduated 3 players in 2017-18: Dre Black, Kam Chatman, and Isaiah Jones.

https://detroittitans.com/news/2018/5/14/academic-support-for-student-athletes-62-titans-take-part-in-2018-graduation.aspx?path=academic_support

Jaleel Hogan completed 4 years here albeit with eligibility issues during his last 3 semesters at school. I don't see our academic issues being much different than those at other mid-major D-1 schools. Playing D-1 BB and getting good grades is tough. I remember Dick Vitale talking about one player whose troubles in one class led to his academic ineligibility here over 40 years ago. "We tried every way possible to keep him eligible. We even tried adding all of his test scores together; but they would not have been enough to get him a passing grade." Now, Dick was joking (I hope); but you should get the point. Some people and school just don't mix well together.

I don't like that we have to deal with his now. I do believe we will get the waiver due to the unique circumstances involved here.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri May 10, 2019 11:17 am

I wonder what kind of timeframe we can reasonably expect on any appeal? I’m no expert, but my guess is the university formally appeals next week (and hopefully communicates it to the fans). But then we have to wait for the NCAA to make a decision, which I’m guessing could take months.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Commissioner » Fri May 10, 2019 2:31 pm

Tacitus651 wrote:I wonder what kind of timeframe we can reasonably expect on any appeal? I’m no expert, but my guess is the university formally appeals next week (and hopefully communicates it to the fans). But then we have to wait for the NCAA to make a decision, which I’m guessing could take months.

Fortunately, as the only school in the country playing D1 basketball to be in this situation, our appeal will be the first one on the agenda.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Titans96 » Fri May 10, 2019 3:36 pm

I am not sure why there is not much attention being placed on the entire Titan Athletic Program APR's. We have obvious major issues with the Men's Basketball Program, Men's Lacrosse and Women's Softball with each of these programs being in the bottom 10% of all D1 programs, along with some other Titan programs in the bottom 30% of all D1. The only one being penalized this year is the Men's Basketball Program, but the other performances listed are pitiful and embarrassing for the school and alumni.

This poor level of performance is absolutely clear justification for termination of Vowels. He has failed the school in so many ways, and this kind of academic performance is 100% on his shoulders due to his lack of leadership, his poor hiring decisions and his obvious reckless lack of focus on education for all of the student-athletes at UDM. The School President and Board of Directors need to act NOW and get rid of Vowels and bring in someone who can focus on the student-athlete education and turn the entire Titan Athletic Program around quickly.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby NC Titan » Fri May 10, 2019 4:03 pm

If players dropping out and not going to another school cause a low APR, what does it mean when a school has regular one-and-done players? Does Duke get dinged when Zion Williamson and other freshmen leave for the NBA? Or do players going pro escape the count?
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri May 10, 2019 4:32 pm

NC Titan wrote:If players dropping out and not going to another school cause a low APR, what does it mean when a school has regular one-and-done players? Does Duke get dinged when Zion Williamson and other freshmen leave for the NBA? Or do players going pro escape the count?


Since you asked, Duke's 4-year average for men's BB is 957, 1 point less than our softball team and 3 points above our men's lacrosse team. Its 2017-18, Duke's Men's BB APR was 936.

UNC Chapel Hill Men's BB is a 4-year APR of 990, but the 2017-18 APR was 962.

NC State Men's BB is a 4-yr APR of 944. Its 2017-18 APR for men's BB was 882.

Going 1 and done must not hurt your APR because Kentucky has a perfect 1000 APR in men's BB.

FYI, our 4-year APR for softball is 958 and 954 for Men's Lacrosse.

The real issue on the APR for mid-major sports is whether their retention numbers get affected by transfers out or by academic eligibility.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri May 10, 2019 4:51 pm

Detroit Mercy fans this week learning the intricate details about the NCAA APR rules

Image
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri May 10, 2019 4:58 pm

Just got home and received the latest edition of Spiritus in the mail. A nice long article about AD. Ends with a quote about the need to win as a program and “go to the NCAA tournament.”
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri May 10, 2019 8:02 pm

Don't worry, tacitus. We will go to the tournament as the 2019-20 league champions after a hard fought win over Wright State at the Indiana State Fair.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri May 10, 2019 8:31 pm

ptctitan wrote:Don't worry, tacitus. We will go to the tournament as the 2019-20 league champions after a hard fought win over Wright State at the Indiana State Fair.


I’ve been thinking - it would actually be a great intro scene for our 30 for 30. Banned from post-season but then appeal and win and go on to shock the world.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby JDetroitTitan » Mon May 13, 2019 9:12 am

It appears the media is selling those stories without checking the facts. If you go on the NCAA website and look up UDM APR rating and report we at this time have a level one penalty not a level two. So are practices are limited but we can still play in post season play at this time. The Washington post forgot to take three minutes to look up the penalty on the NCAA website. The link I put below has the website you can look at the report and read it. The penalty is on the last page.


"Sport Multiyear APR Penalty Level Penalty - Level One Penalty -Men's Basketball 920 Level One In-season: Limited to 5 days and 16 hours of countable activity per week."


https://web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/public_ ... 7750412752
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Resurget Cineribus » Mon May 13, 2019 9:29 am

We are appealing.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon May 13, 2019 9:43 am

But Tony Paul said we were banned . . .
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby JDetroitTitan » Mon May 13, 2019 9:55 am

Tacitus651 wrote:But Tony Paul said we were banned . . .



All I can say is I looked up this report on the NCAA website and it says we are at a "level one penalty". Then I read this article by the NCAA

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/res ... -explained

That states a level Two penalty bans you from the postseason. On the report it doesn't have us down as having a level two. It only shows us as being penalized for a level one on the last page.

repot link
https://web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/public_reports/apr2018/184_2018_apr.pdf?v=1557750412752

Take a look for yourself. I still say we need to appeal because next year we will still have a four year apr rating below 930. Don't quote me but I believe that would put us in penalty two phase banning us from post-season play.
Last edited by JDetroitTitan on Mon May 13, 2019 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon May 13, 2019 10:01 am

I think you’re right. Ptc, what say you?
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Mon May 13, 2019 10:30 am

To be eligible for post-season play, a team must have a 4-year APR average of 930 or higher. The NCAA deems this a matter of eligibility for post-season play. Technically, it's not a direct penalty imposed for the low APR rating. If you notice the form in the link above, in small print at the top of the last page, it says that men's BB is ineligible for postseason play. Practically speaking, it is a penalty.

The actual Level 1 penalty for failing to meet the 930 APR is a restriction on practice time.

Technically speaking, we will be asking for a waiver of any penalty and a waiver of the application of the eligibility formula to our 2019-20 men's BB team for the reason that the failure to meet the 930 average resulted from the transfer issue - not from an abnormally high number of players who were academically ineligible during those 4 years. Again, the tipping point occurred when Jackson and Ballantyne transferred and chose not to enroll in another college for the 2018-19 school year. Both of these players were in good academic standing when they transferred. They decided to transfer after Mike Davis was named the head coach and Jermaine Jackson, Sr. was not retained either as head coach or in any other coaching capacity. If you recall, from the outset, Coach Davis said that he would try to bring his entire staff here from Texas Southern with him.

In essence, after they had requested their releases and were granted their releases, the two players took a gap year. If you recall, I believe that in late June, Jermaine Jackson, Sr told the newspapers that his son had asked for and had been granted his release to transfer. The application of the APR formula has penalized us as if they are drop-outs.

Again, remember that the greatest effect upon the 4-year average APR came from the number of transfers - not from the number of players receiving academic aid that were academically ineligible.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Mon May 13, 2019 10:43 am

Right. I did read past the “Teams must earn a four-year average APR of 930 to compete in championships.” Still, the NCAA could write something better.

We need to win the appeal, and fast.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Mon May 13, 2019 11:00 am

Tacitus651 wrote:Right. I did read past the “Teams must earn a four-year average APR of 930 to compete in championships.” Still, the NCAA could write something better.

We need to win the appeal, and fast.


I agree. When the failure to meet the APR requirement results from an unusually high number of transfers in good academic standing due to coaching personnel decisions and not due to an institution-wide problem in the classroom, the eligibility requirement should be waived on a case-by-case basis when the players and coaches being kept from postseason play are the not the same group of people who caused the problem. Otherwise, the requirement would create an incentive for member schools to retain players and coaches for longer than they should be kept solely to avoid an APR penalty when it would not be in the best interests of the school to keep them that long.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Rogobob77 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:57 pm

Misery loves company, UCLA hoops also having APR woes:

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com ... rough-apr/
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