Post-season ban

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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Thu May 16, 2019 7:34 pm

NC Titan wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:It’s also worth noting that college students in general have poor graduation rates outside of the top 100 schools nationally. For example, IUPUI has a student gradation rate of 54.2% within six years in enrolling. It’s worth asking if we should expect more from student athletes than other students.


UDM's 2018 graduation rate was 55% of students after four years. The graduation rate for the entering class of 2012 (in other words, how many graduate within six years) was 65%. Both those numbers continued an upward trend.


Right, wouldn’t we all agree that’s still poor? As a societal matter? But why should college athletes be held to a higher standard?

If you look at most of the other schools 96 referenced, they have very low graduation rates in general. To be blunt, it’s not that their ADs suck or their coaches suck. It’s that they are by all measures low quality universities to begin with and mostly attract students that are not prepared for college level academics even of the lowest caliber.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 pm

The APR score is the ratio of total points awarded to total possible points that can be awarded x 1000.

A 977 APR total APR means that our athletic program was awarded .977 of all possible APR points that it could have received. Expressed as a percentage, this means that in the 2017-18 school year, the UDM athletic program, for all sports, received 97.7% of all possible APR points that it could have received.

According to Titan96's spreadsheet above, the average APR rating for the HL was .983. This means that the average HL school received 98.3% of all possible APR points that could have been awarded during that 4-year period.

Both percentages round to 98%. In other words, the poster with a narrative searching for some facts is demanding the dismissal of the AD because during that 4-year period (2014-15 to 2017-18), as a school, our APR expressed as a percentage was 6/10ths of a percentage point lower than the league average. IMO, that is a ridiculously hyperbolic argument.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby TerryTylerFan » Thu May 16, 2019 10:43 pm

ptctitan wrote:
IMO, that is a ridiculously hyperbolic argument.

Well, JJ and JJJ are gone. Maybe his hyperbolic trigger finger is getting itchy.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Rogobob77 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:08 pm

Heard tonight we are definitely appealing ban, seeking waiver. Vowels said we have a good case, didn’t provide expected timetable. An assistant said we should get a decision by the end of summer.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Titans96 » Sun May 19, 2019 2:52 pm

Isn’t it great that we are going to appeal and seek a waiver? This is just another example of the incompetence which got us here in the first place. I realize how much ptc wants to think that we are a top tier program with a few odd issues impacting our performance, but he couldn’t be further from the truth.

We are on the banned from post season list with some of the worst programs in D1. We are in 9th place in the Horizon League in APR. We have the worst performing D1 programs in Michigan (maybe the Midwest). We aren’t close to any other Jesuit school in the country (at any level) in regards to our sports programs. Yet many on this board and ptc think Vowels is taking the Athletic Department in the right direction.

I made it very clear that JJ, Bacari and Vowels were bad news, and it has proven itself out as correct. Yet ptc and his happy band of followers still think there is hope with Vowels. PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND! Do you not realize that Vowels is leading us to nowhere, and there have been zero improvements over his career at UDM. As a matter of fact, the Athletic Department has gotten much worse, and now we are being told by the NCAA that changes need to be made (hence the ban) yet we still keep on believing that Vowels is the right guy for the school.

There is nothing to be said positive about Vowels performance and if this were a business (which it is by the way) he would be long gone. No one can explain the rationale for keeping him, except that they want the program to continue the decline.

It’s sad how far the Titans have fallen.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby NC Titan » Sun May 19, 2019 5:28 pm

T96, I'm still not clear on how you feel about Vowels.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby Tacitus651 » Sun May 19, 2019 5:38 pm

Let’s wait and see how the appeal goes. We could lose this appeal, have a weak recruiting class and have a very poor next two seasons. If Davis can’t win here with his future draft pick son in the first three years then I fear it’ll never happen. But let’s be optimistic. Maybe we win the appeal, have a decent year this year and will be set up for a very good 2020-2021.

I think if Vowels loses the appeal then some of what 96 says is warranted though.
“We gotta get some guys that love Detroit Mercy more than just being on a basketball team, playing basketball and going on trips.” - Head Coach Mike Davis
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Mon May 20, 2019 7:34 am

If pointing out how the facts do not support a poster's hyperbolic rant about APR constitutes "defending Vowels," then so be it.

Did this poster complain when the men's BB APR plummeted to just 8 points away from losing postseason eligibility for the 2011-12 HL tournament? Because that's how close we were to being ineligible for the 2012 NCAAs and not being able to play Kansas. Did he complain about that AD at that time? Did anyone complain about APR when we were winning 20 games per year back then?

I support the current men's BB team and the efforts of the current coaching staff to build a real foundation here. They should not be penalized for the unusual transfer situation caused by certain players who did not want to play here last season and who did not enroll in any school in 2018-19.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby JDetroitTitan » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:50 am

:( :( :(
Last edited by JDetroitTitan on Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby JDetroitTitan » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:51 am

:?: :?: :?:
Last edited by JDetroitTitan on Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Post-season ban

Postby ptctitan » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:36 pm

I don't believe that the NCAA's Division 1 - Committee on Infractions is the body to whom we will appeal the APR score and to whom we would request a waiver of the post-season eligibility ban and the restrictions on practice time. I think it would be a waste of time, and perhaps counterproductive to our case, for a bunch of fans to deluge members of the Infractions Committee with letters and emails.

We have an AD who is very familiar with the internal NCAA bureaucracy; and, how best to obtain our desired result. We have a very strong case on the merits and principles of fairness. If our public input is needed, I'm sure that we will be notified and asked to send a letter or email.
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