Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:58 pm

PTC, I think sometimes we talk past each other, and it’s probably more my fault than yours. Yes, we have an awesome opportunity right now largely thanks to Garibaldi giving athletics the resources, having a great coach, and one of the greatest college players in the country. I guess what I am saying (and I think Mike sort of says as well) is that this opportunity is a bit squandered because had we also re-rebranded (or, un-rebranded) a few years ago and now operated as the University of Detroit, we would maybe be MORE likely to achieve the ambitious dreams of being like Dayton or Gonzaga. Again, people can say we need to fix or improve things like winning, attendance, fundraising, admissions applications, recruiting, etc. all the time. I think most people on this board feel that the failed rebrand hinders all of those things despite some recent success or hope for success. That’s why the issue is constantly raised and will probably be raised until either (1) the rebrand starts to stick, or (2) the school, like Rogo says, admits it isn’t working and takes action. Unfortunately, I don’t see either of those as likely anytime soon. I don’t expect the board of trustees to call an emergency meeting tonight to rename the school because of my bitching. But, one thing I know after participating on this board for seven years, is that this issue will always re-emerge on a continuous basis with or without me invoking the issue.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Big Chuck » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:48 pm

I think the rebranding has been tough. The fact that other league members are rebranding to a city name at the same time we are trying to emphasize the longer name has been a challenge. The league has gone down hill. No one is denying any of this

BUT Coach Davis did not have to come here. If he wanted to escape Texas Southern (not a given) he could have had his choice of schools. Many with better facilities and at least similar name recognition. He chose Detroit MERCY of the Horizon League. He believes that he can overcome everything we are complaining about given some rather modest facility improvements.

I believe he believes he can build a winner. I also believe he has a better Idea of what it takes than most of the posters on this board, including me. So let's concentrate on the positives and get him the facilities he has required. Coach made a big point about how the other facilities and teams played a big role, it was not just BB facilities. that surprised me, but he said it at the Roundball luncheon. He certainly is not asking for the moon. These are modest requests to be a Division I winner. Can he get to the Elite 8 in 5 years if we give him what he wants? That's his goal. I don't know, but I am will to take the ride.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Commissioner » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:25 pm

Big Chuck wrote:I think the rebranding has been tough. The fact that other league members are rebranding to a city name at the same time we are trying to emphasize the longer name has been a challenge. The league has gone down hill. No one is denying any of this

BUT Coach Davis did not have to come here. If he wanted to escape Texas Southern (not a given) he could have had his choice of schools. Many with better facilities and at least similar name recognition. He chose Detroit MERCY of the Horizon League. He believes that he can overcome everything we are complaining about given some rather modest facility improvements.

I believe he believes he can build a winner. I also believe he has a better Idea of what it takes than most of the posters on this board, including me. So let's concentrate on the positives and get him the facilities he has required. Coach made a big point about how the other facilities and teams played a big role, it was not just BB facilities. that surprised me, but he said it at the Roundball luncheon. He certainly is not asking for the moon. These are modest requests to be a Division I winner. Can he get to the Elite 8 in 5 years if we give him what he wants? That's his goal. I don't know, but I am will to take the ride.

I'll settle for a Sweet 16. Tee up Mac to call me a defeatist loser. ;-)
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:41 pm

tacitus - no problem. A lot of times, I was composing a post when you were also doing the same thing. I am not always responding to you merely because your post directly precedes mine. But I understand why you may think so.

I agree with Big Chuck's post above. I don't see the causal link between the brand name, conference, and the need to improve our facilities. Bo Kimble and Hank Gaithers went to Loyola Marymount.

If we still played as the Detroit Titans, we still should make these upgrades because Coach says they will increase the chances of landing more talented players on a more consistent basis.

If we played as the Detroit Titans in the Atlantic-10 Conference, we still should make these upgrades because Coach says it will increase the chances of landing more talented players on a more consistent basis.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby NC Titan » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:23 pm

+1

I support the school, regardless of name.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:32 am

NC Titan wrote:+1

I support the school, regardless of name.

It was great to meet the legendary NC Titan on campus the last two nights, yesterday for the Kevin Boyle “Arc of Justice” lecture and tonight for the Theatre Company performance of Tennessee Williams one-act plays. Enjoyed hearing NC’s story about giving newly arrived Dick Vitale the keys to his car so he could drive around town for a few days back in 1973.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby titanmike » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:33 am

ptctitan wrote:
titanmike wrote:
ptctitan wrote:Do you want a team that will win the HL's automatic bid on a regular basis or are you more comfortable with a lower performing team because that permits you to bitch continually about the same issues over and over again?

We are who we are; and, we play where we play. Neither fact prevents us from building a much better flagship men's program that will become a destination to be considered by more and more of the better players. Despite the many opinions here, the coaching staff believes that they can make "it" happen here in the HL and with the name Detroit Mercy.

Do you want this to happen?


I think your assuming that myself or others who respond with this opinion don't do squat financially or otherwise? I think those that you would want to address are the very same people who agree that this is one issue that is a road block. They just don't post on a messageboard, they withhold funds.


No. I'm asking what is more important. A winning program or the school's name. A winning program or the conference in which we play. I don't like the name; and, I would prefer to be in a conference with schools with whom we have much more in common than these larger state government supported universities.

However, as I have thought through these issues, my number 1 priority has become a consistently winning flagship men's basketball team. The conference in which we play and the awkward name on the jerseys is less important to me than the W-L record. Therefore, I will support to the best of my ability the planned fundraising effort to improve the men's BB team. And I will continue to make my checks payable to "University of Detroit."


As pointed out by Rogobob , but maybe not as relevant today, the name might be detrimental to recruiting. Certainly if that's the case wont that have a greater impact in the long run?
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby TerryTylerFan » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:16 am

My own little rebrand fail: In Colorado last week I was wearing a white Titans sweatshirt with large colorful TITANS lettering and smaller gray DETROIT MERCY across the top. The restaurant host said “Nice shirt. I was about to congratulate you on the (Tennessee) Titans opening win until I saw the top. What’s Detroit Mercy?”

My instant reply was “It’s the University of Detroit. Great school!” It never occurred to me in the moment to say anything different.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:53 am

titanmike wrote: As pointed out by Rogobob , but maybe not as relevant today, the name might be detrimental to recruiting. Certainly if that's the case wont that have a greater impact in the long run?


Our coaching staff would answer your question, "No." The biggest impediment to their recruiting is the disparity in resources between our school and other schools that players are considering. If we narrow or close that gap, we will achieve better results on the floor.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby NC Titan » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am

TerryTylerFan wrote:My own little rebrand fail: In Colorado last week I was wearing a white Titans sweatshirt with large colorful TITANS lettering and smaller gray DETROIT MERCY across the top. The restaurant host said “Nice shirt. I was about to congratulate you on the (Tennessee) Titans opening win until I saw the top. What’s Detroit Mercy?”

My instant reply was “It’s the University of Detroit. Great school!” It never occurred to me in the moment to say anything different.


I can beat that. A guy on the street asked me if Detroit Mercy was that state school in Lansing. "No," I said, "it's the University of Detroit." "Oh," he said, "where is that?" "Well," I said, "it's in [long pause] Detroit."

titanmike wrote:
As pointed out by Rogobob , but maybe not as relevant today, the name might be detrimental to recruiting. Certainly if that's the case wont that have a greater impact in the long run?


Our coaching staff would answer your question, "No." The biggest impediment to their recruiting is the disparity in resources between our school and other schools that players are considering. If we narrow or close that gap, we will achieve better results on the floor.


As far as the exchange between TitanMike and PTCTitan, I think PTC is correct. Does an 18-year-old who's never heard of DaveD and Long and Tyler care about the name of the school? Does an 18-year-old have any idea of the history of the University of Detroit? No. Certainly not. It's the facilities and the resources. Help improve those and even the playing field a bit and we'll have a chance with top recruits. No high school kid is going to care that Dave DeBusschere played at the school 65 years ago. Heck, they don't even know who DaveD was, much less where he played.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby titanmike » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:25 am

NC Titan wrote:
TerryTylerFan wrote:My own little rebrand fail: In Colorado last week I was wearing a white Titans sweatshirt with large colorful TITANS lettering and smaller gray DETROIT MERCY across the top. The restaurant host said “Nice shirt. I was about to congratulate you on the (Tennessee) Titans opening win until I saw the top. What’s Detroit Mercy?”

My instant reply was “It’s the University of Detroit. Great school!” It never occurred to me in the moment to say anything different.


I can beat that. A guy on the street asked me if Detroit Mercy was that state school in Lansing. "No," I said, "it's the University of Detroit." "Oh," he said, "where is that?" "Well," I said, "it's in [long pause] Detroit."

titanmike wrote:
As pointed out by Rogobob , but maybe not as relevant today, the name might be detrimental to recruiting. Certainly if that's the case wont that have a greater impact in the long run?


Our coaching staff would answer your question, "No." The biggest impediment to their recruiting is the disparity in resources between our school and other schools that players are considering. If we narrow or close that gap, we will achieve better results on the floor.


As far as the exchange between TitanMike and PTCTitan, I think PTC is correct. Does an 18-year-old who's never heard of DaveD and Long and Tyler care about the name of the school? Does an 18-year-old have any idea of the history of the University of Detroit? No. Certainly not. It's the facilities and the resources. Help improve those and even the playing field a bit and we'll have a chance with top recruits. No high school kid is going to care that Dave DeBusschere played at the school 65 years ago. Heck, they don't even know who DaveD was, much less where he played.


To be clear I was all on board, either way.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Commissioner » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:42 pm

NC Titan wrote:
TerryTylerFan wrote:My own little rebrand fail: In Colorado last week I was wearing a white Titans sweatshirt with large colorful TITANS lettering and smaller gray DETROIT MERCY across the top. The restaurant host said “Nice shirt. I was about to congratulate you on the (Tennessee) Titans opening win until I saw the top. What’s Detroit Mercy?”

My instant reply was “It’s the University of Detroit. Great school!” It never occurred to me in the moment to say anything different.


I can beat that. A guy on the street asked me if Detroit Mercy was that state school in Lansing. "No," I said, "it's the University of Detroit." "Oh," he said, "where is that?" "Well," I said, "it's in [long pause] Detroit."

titanmike wrote:
As pointed out by Rogobob , but maybe not as relevant today, the name might be detrimental to recruiting. Certainly if that's the case wont that have a greater impact in the long run?


Our coaching staff would answer your question, "No." The biggest impediment to their recruiting is the disparity in resources between our school and other schools that players are considering. If we narrow or close that gap, we will achieve better results on the floor.


As far as the exchange between TitanMike and PTCTitan, I think PTC is correct. Does an 18-year-old who's never heard of DaveD and Long and Tyler care about the name of the school? Does an 18-year-old have any idea of the history of the University of Detroit? No. Certainly not. It's the facilities and the resources. Help improve those and even the playing field a bit and we'll have a chance with top recruits. No high school kid is going to care that Dave DeBusschere played at the school 65 years ago. Heck, they don't even know who DaveD was, much less where he played.

I think you're generally right, NC, but don't totally dismiss the name. For example, Mary Washington College--a very good liberal arts school in Fredericksburg, VA--when through a big name-change battle because they couldn't attract male students, who assumed it was a girls' school. Our league mates at Green Bay and Milwaukee sought to drop the hyphenated "Wisconsin" to improve recruiting. To a young kid who knows nothing of the history, "University of Detroit" sounds more like a major program, I submit, than does "University of Detroit Mercy."

I agree that there are much bigger issues--as you say, facilities and resources--but the name matters, too. That why companies spend millions on rebrands.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby Rogobob77 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:24 pm

Commissioner wrote:
NC Titan wrote:
TerryTylerFan wrote:My own little rebrand fail: In Colorado last week I was wearing a white Titans sweatshirt with large colorful TITANS lettering and smaller gray DETROIT MERCY across the top. The restaurant host said “Nice shirt. I was about to congratulate you on the (Tennessee) Titans opening win until I saw the top. What’s Detroit Mercy?”

My instant reply was “It’s the University of Detroit. Great school!” It never occurred to me in the moment to say anything different.


I can beat that. A guy on the street asked me if Detroit Mercy was that state school in Lansing. "No," I said, "it's the University of Detroit." "Oh," he said, "where is that?" "Well," I said, "it's in [long pause] Detroit."

titanmike wrote:
As pointed out by Rogobob , but maybe not as relevant today, the name might be detrimental to recruiting. Certainly if that's the case wont that have a greater impact in the long run?


Our coaching staff would answer your question, "No." The biggest impediment to their recruiting is the disparity in resources between our school and other schools that players are considering. If we narrow or close that gap, we will achieve better results on the floor.


As far as the exchange between TitanMike and PTCTitan, I think PTC is correct. Does an 18-year-old who's never heard of DaveD and Long and Tyler care about the name of the school? Does an 18-year-old have any idea of the history of the University of Detroit? No. Certainly not. It's the facilities and the resources. Help improve those and even the playing field a bit and we'll have a chance with top recruits. No high school kid is going to care that Dave DeBusschere played at the school 65 years ago. Heck, they don't even know who DaveD was, much less where he played.

I think you're generally right, NC, but don't totally dismiss the name. For example, Mary Washington College--a very good liberal arts school in Fredericksburg, VA--when through a big name-change battle because they couldn't attract male students, who assumed it was a girls' school. Our league mates at Green Bay and Milwaukee sought to drop the hyphenated "Wisconsin" to improve recruiting. To a young kid who knows nothing of the history, "University of Detroit" sounds more like a major program, I submit, than does "University of Detroit Mercy."

I agree that there are much bigger issues--as you say, facilities and resources--but the name matters, too. That why companies spend millions on rebrands.

FWIW, I read that when Mercy College went co-ed, I believe sometime in the 1960s, their administration seriously considered changing the name of the school because they found it a barrier going forward in attracting male applicants.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:28 pm

Mercy College also had a men's basketball team shortly before it merged with us.

My only point about the school name is that changing it is not the most important thing that needs to get done now in order to make the current men's BB program much better.

The main problem with the name is that it does not state succinctly what comprises the university; viz., that it is a merger of the University of Detroit and Mercy College of Detroit. Far too many people not tuned into the Detroit area think the name means that the school is solely a Sisters of Mercy institution. In that respect, the far greater number of alumni who went to the Jesuit's University of Detroit feel that their heritage has been sold out. They feel no identity or affinity with Mercy because in their time in college, Mercy College was a small (mainly nursing) all-women school located at Outer Drive and Southfield alongside the old Mercy High School.

Likewise, "Detroit Mercy" accomplishes the same negative thing. It says to most people that this is the Sisters of Mercy university that is located in Detroit. Again it obliterates the Jesuit heritage and the U of D heritage of the school.

More importantly, in Division 1 NCAA athletics, Mercy had no heritage when it joined us. Bob Calihan played, coached, and was AD at the University of Detroit. The clock tower was built under the Jesuits for the University of Detroit. So were the Engineering, Business, and Architecture colleges. If there was a bill of sale for all of these assets, then we should see it. If not, the first move at compromise is to again permit the sports teams to play under the name "Detroit Titans." The new logo can be displayed on uniforms and the school's short name could be "Detroit-Mercy", with the hyphen showing the joinder between the two schools. The absence of the hyphen creates inaccurate information in the brand - and that is not desirable in any marketing plan. Plus, it has alienated needlessly far too many alumni of the University of Detroit.

This rant ended. We still need to support the effort to upgrade our facilities. That support may also gives us more leverage about the name.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby NC Titan » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:18 pm

I think we can solve the whole question by making the Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight or Final Four for a few tournaments. Then everyone will know Detroit Mercy.
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Re: Purdue Fort Wayne to join Horizon League

Postby ptctitan » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:04 pm

NC Titan wrote:I think we can solve the whole question by making the Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight or Final Four for a few tournaments. Then everyone will know Detroit Mercy.


Definitely!!!!
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