Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby NC Titan » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:14 am

udballer wrote:Please list the Titan jerseys that have been retired. Then, it will be an apples to apples comparison. I can probably name a dozen Titans that should have their jerseys retired if Eli has his retired. For some reason, I'm doubting that they do.

P.S. Rodney Monroe should've had his number retired at NC State. He was a beast. :)


I found a number of articles from 2016 about Spencer's 45 being retired:

Haywood was the sixth men’s basketball player to have his jersey retired following Bob Calihan, Dave DeBusschere, John Long, Rashad Phillips and Terry Tyler.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby udballer » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:32 pm

Right. I believe we retired Duerod in 2017. Now Willie, Earl & Eli are on the docket? If we've lowered our internal standards, shouldn't we be retiring jerseys chronologically or something? I can definitely name a dozen that deserve jersey retirement at this level.

Again, I'm not claiming Eli wasn't a good player... because he was.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby NC Titan » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:28 pm

(Baller, play close attention because I'll say it one more time: There is a difference between having a number retired and a jersey retired.)

My error above because I pulled an incorrect quote. Haywood's number 45, not just his jersey, was retired. From the Titan Athletics Department website, updated last May (although with one factual error), under Men's Basketball History, Retired Numbers:

No. 17 belonged to the University’s first basketball All-American, the late Bob Calihan. He played between 1938 and ’40 for the Red and White, leading the Titans to 45 victories against only 18 setbacks in those three varsity seasons. Calihan led the Titans in scoring three years running, and broke all existing school point production records in the process. Later, he would serve his alma mater as both head basketball coach and athletic director.

The No. 22 of the late Dave DeBusschere became nationally renowned when the Titans, led by their 6-8 All-American forward, made their first three postseason tournament appearances in 1960, ’61 and ’62. DeBusschere is the only Titan player ever to average more than 20 points per game in three consecutive seasons. He is currently second on the all-time Titan scoring list. Additionally, he still holds the team’s game, season and career rebounding records. A Titan baseball star as well, he is one of only five athletes ever to earn first-team All-American recognition in two sports.

The last player to wear No. 44, center Terry Tyler played four varsity seasons for the Titans between 1975 and ’78. He was an All-American as a senior, and played on two post-season tournament teams. Tyler held the school’s one-season record for field goal accuracy until 1993. Additionally, he is at the top in blocked shots for a career, season and single game. He is the fifth-leading scorer in Titan annals.

Tyler’s four-year teammate, John Long, wore No. 50 until the end of his Titan career. Like Tyler, he was an All-American in 1978. Long is one of two Titans to ever to score more than 2,000 points in their career, ending his time as a Titan with 2,167 in 110 games. Long is one of three Titans ever to average more than 20 points a game in two separate seasons. Each of those four players had their jerseys retired in special 1978 ceremonies.

No. 3 in honor of Rashad Phillips went up to the catwalks in 2010. The electric guard was a three-year starter for a resurgent Titan squad that went 95-36 in his four seasons on campus. That record included two NCAA tournament appearances and an NIT Final Four berth in his senior campaign. NCAA tournament wins over St. John’s (1998) and UCLA (1999) as well as a run to the NIT Final Four were the highlights of a career that was accentuated with a Midwest Collegiate Conference tournament title in 1999.The 5-foot-10 Phillips racked-up an impressive 2,319 points in a Detroit Mercy uniform, just the second Titan player to eclipse the 2,000-point plateau. He is the school’s career leader in points, three-pointers (348) and free throws (541) and is second in steals (190). He was a two-time League Player of the Year (2000, 01) and received the 2001 Frances Pomeroy Naismith Award from the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as the leading player in the nation standing six-feet-tall and under.

In 2016, the Titans retired the No. 45 jersey of Spencer Haywood. Haywood was also inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 2015. His only year as a Titan was 1968-69 and is generally considered one of the greatest single seasons ever in Titan basketball history as he still ranks first in scoring average (32.1), second in total points (771), rebounds (530) and free throws (195) and tied for second in total field goals (288). The 32.1 points was fourth in the NCAA behind only "Pistol" Pete Maravich, Rick Mount and Calvin Murphy, while his 22.1 rebounds led the nation.

In 2017, Calihan Hall was ringing to the sound of "Sweet Doo" as the no. 42 of Terry Duerod was retired. He was one of the best pure shooters in school history as well as in the collegiate game during his time from 1975-79. He ended his career with 1,690 points, fourth when he graduated and still sixth all-time in school history. In 111 career games, he averaged 15.2 points and is among the top 10 career leaders in field goals (third with 790) and field goal attempts (fourth with 1,542). As a senior, he was tabbed an All-American after averaging 23.3 points, seventh in school history at the time and ninth today. He posted a school record with 303 field goals, while his 23.3 points rank eighth in the school record book. His 47-point outburst against CCNY on Feb. 10, 1979, is still the second-best single game performance of any Titan. During his time, he helped lead the Titans to one of their best runs in school history as U-D went 91-22 with three trips to the postseason. The Titans made the NCAA Tournament in 1977 and 1979 and the NIT in 1978.


If you can suggest numbers or jerseys that should be retired, you should contact the school with your list. I believe that falls into P.J. Gradowski's portfolio.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby udballer » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:48 pm

Thanks for saying it one more time.

Please let us know the list of jerseys retired now that you've created the distinction between the two.

I'm assuming the list would either be the same as the above (retired numbers) or a list of zero people to date but I'd like to be sure...
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby NC Titan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:22 am

udballer wrote:Thanks for saying it one more time.

Please let us know the list of jerseys retired now that you've created the distinction between the two.

I'm assuming the list would either be the same as the above (retired numbers) or a list of zero people to date but I'd like to be sure...


Take a look next time you're at a game.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby titanmac » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:34 am

:D :D :D :D :D
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby udballer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:55 am

Okay. I'm pretty sure the list is the same then. Not sure why we're trying to make a distinction between the two when the current list is the same. If that's the case, it still makes no sense to me to retire Eli Holman's Jersey at this time. I'd think there would be alot of retroactive retirements prior to him as the university has a number of more deserving & equally deserving former players without jerseys in the rafters.

This smells like the most important requirement for jersey retirement surrounds donations to the university.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby NC Titan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:52 pm

I would venture to guess that any player who ignored or didn't interact with the school post-college probably would have little or no chance to be honored. Calihan certainly stayed involved. DaveD was a known supporter of the school. Haywood came to terms with the school in the past decade and was a positive to the program. Rashad is still close to the program, for what I understand, and Tyler and Long and Duerod all participated in events and showed their support.

Unless being in the Hall of Fame or getting a jersey retired is strictly statistical, involvement with the school is an acceptable criterion. It is for just about any other honor the school bestows on its alumni.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby udballer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:37 pm

In my opinion, it should be 99% statistical. Otherwise we are going to be staring up at a very strange mix of jerseys in the rafters.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby NC Titan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:18 pm

udballer wrote:In my opinion, it should be 99% statistical. Otherwise we are going to be staring up at a very strange mix of jerseys in the rafters.


What if you have someone who has the numbers but doesn't care enough to show up for the ceremony?

Think about the Baseball Hall of Fame. Some players who were not good ambassadors of the game are left out. Other players with marginal numbers are in because of what they did for the game after their playing careers. For instance, what qualifies Jackie Robinson's #42 to be retired at every ballpark. He had a great career, but certainly if you're going strictly on the numbers, Babe Ruth's or Henry Aaron's or Cy Young's numbers should be the one retired in each ballpark. It's about more than just numbers.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby udballer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:02 pm

Though I understand where you're trying to go with this, I'm not sure that Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier can be compared with anything Eli has brought to the table.

I'll go on record now as saying that with Eli's jersey retirement, I'll be disappointed if Terrell Riggs is not retired. He played here for 4 years and accomplished more on the court. What if he doesn't have the money to donate some shooting machines? He's out for that reason? That would be a terrible precedent to set.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby dennycrane » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:24 pm

Thank you for mentioning Jackie Robinson's number 42 being retired by every MLB team, NCT, even ones which didn't exist at the time he played. Of all of Bud Selig's many mistakes as Commissioner, I think this was the worst of them. Jackie had a fine career, he did break the color barrier and very much deserves being in the Hall of Fame. His number should be, and is, retired by the Los Angeles (nee Brooklyn) Dodgers. The number being retired by every franchise is ridiculous.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby udballer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:25 pm

Though I don't see any reason that a single jersey/number should be retired by each and every team in any sport, there aren't many better options than Jackie Robinson. I'd prefer that nobody gets that honor, but he deserves it over Ruth, Cy Young or Hank. He represents a change in thinking that turned professional baseball into a sport that included the best players in the world. That's pretty major.

Plus, I'm sure he must have donated money to every franchise. That should obviously be a criteria for such an honor.
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Re: Eli Holman jersey retirement (January 25)

Postby NC Titan » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:46 am

Denny and Baller, you're both missing the point of my comment. I used Jackie as an illustration that retiring a jersey, like getting into the HoF, is earned beyond what was accomplished on the field. Or floor, in our case. It cannot be 99% a statistical formula. Involvement in the U after graduation is a component. Fair and simple. For instance, the next logical jersey to retire, from a timeline sequence perspective, is Ray Jr. But in light of his dad's firing would Ray even attend? If he said he wouldn't come back for the ceremony, should the school still retire his jersey? (This is not an argument that Ray is more deserving that Derrick Hayes or Tony Tolbert, it's meant to start a discussion about retiring a jersey for someone who wouldn't attend.)

On a tangential note, I read where someone is appealing to the Major League Baseball to have Shoeless Joe Jackson reinstated because his 1919 transgression earned him a lifetime ban and since he's dead now they want him reinstated.
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