loyola advances; succeeds...

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loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby titanmac » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:28 pm

http://detroitnews.mi.newsmemory.com/?publink=2c27799ec

happy for our chicago brethren. so much for the theory that you must dominate the conference before moving up...what you must do is have the will to move on, set goals and accomplish the necessary and required task.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby dennycrane » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:40 pm

Amen mac!! Amen ,Amen , Amen!!!

Loyola was losing more than we were when they decided they'd had enough of the HL dragging them down. So, they did something about it and now they've won 3 of the past 4 MVC regular season titles. They advanced to the Final Four in 2018 and are ranked 20 or 21 this year. They did all this with the same coach who was losing in the Horizon and in the same building that they had 15-20 years ago.

Detroit? We just continue to put up with a lousy league. Oakland joined it in 2014 and we are 3-15 vs them. Northern Kentucky was brand new to Division 1 when they joined and Detroit is 2-10 vs them. IUPUI wants to join? Fine and dandy. Let's make room! This year it was IPFW and Bob Morris. Chicago St. is the only bad program left in the Midwest that isn't in. I guess 13 must be an unlucky number.

Like mac says, it takes the will to want to improve and the leadership to execute a plan. All the way to the top, we don't have that.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby StJoeUofD » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:13 pm

Folks, I don't mean to be a spoil sport here, but does anyone think there is a difference between a school with a $710 million endowment, student population of 16,000 and a city population of 2,700,000 versus a school with a $71 million endowment, student population of 5,000 and a city population of 675,000? Let's not kid ourselves into thinking we are remotely like Loyola. They put millions into the program and offered an entry into the largest sports market in the Midwest. No major conferences are sitting around thinking about how to get into the Detroit sports market. Maybe in 10 or 20 years when the city center has resurrected even more and there are other major sports teams successfully selling their product in Detroit will the conferences come knocking. Since our macroeconomics are not in our favor, the only chance for an upgrade is to win, win and win again. You make a long run in the NCAA and that is worth millions. Lots of warts can be overlooked if your team hands the conference an $8 million check from the activities of your basketball team. For us to find a better conference we need to do what Butler did----hand the Horizon League a big check or two because we won more than one game in the NCAAs. (If you want a plan, my suggestion is to make it to the Final Four once or twice, then renovate a conference room for negotiating with MVC, Big East and anyone else that comes a calling and pick the best deal.)
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby ptctitan » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:52 am

dennycrane wrote: Like mac says, it takes the will to want to improve and the leadership to execute a plan. All the way to the top, we don't have that.


I beg to differ. The problem is not the leadership. Now that the university has placed itself on a sounder financial footing, the new phase includes a $5 million+ investment into athletics because a successful men's BB program, our flagship sport, will drive more enrollment. The lack of will does not exist at the top administrative levels of the university. There remain enough interested alumni and fans who will help. It does not exist at the coaching or player levels of the various teams. Faculty are always a mixed bag. And, in fact, the current AD himself is not a barrier. So, read my preceding opinions, note my specific choices of words, and then ask yourselves what words did I choose and what group of people did I omit.

We can also take Gonzaga's route, remain in the HL, and become a perennial tournament champion. BTW, Davis' goal is to become a regular Top 25 team like Loyola, Gonzaga and other private universities. If that's something you want to happen, then this year is the time to begin action towards that goal.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby Rogobob77 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:57 pm

FWIW, Valpo is another benchmark. Similar enrollment (4,500) to Detroit Mercy, but significantly larger endowment ($580 million). Some success in the Horizon League, have yet to make much of a splash in the MVC.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby EarlTheTwirl » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:30 pm

Rogobob77 wrote:FWIW, Valpo is another benchmark. Similar enrollment (4,500) to Detroit Mercy, but significantly larger endowment ($580 million). Some success in the Horizon League, have yet to make much of a splash in the MVC.


Valpo just closed their law school, not good. They are also in a desolate location.
UDM is about to announce another college, a college of Optometry (in that new Novi facility).
That is good. Our endowment is low but constantly improving. I’m sure we won’t get to
$500M in my lifetime, but as long as the momentum is there, that’s fine.

First we need to win a few Horizon championships and then see what our options are like.
If alumni and friends provide for the $5M upgrade in athletics facilities I could see something happening
in terms of trying to upgrade to a better league in the next 5 years or so.

It’s interesting how Loyola is surpassing DePaul in terms of basketball success in Chicago,
because DePaul brings way more talented teams to play there than Loyola. The MVC of today
is not a better league than the Horizon was when we still had Butler and not so many directional
schools.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby The-Dude » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:48 pm

I may be able to help. I bought a lithium mining stock for $.005 that’s projected to hit $4 by the middle of the year. I have millions of shares. When this happens, I’ll be happy to donate the $5 mil required, under one condition: That we brand back to U of D. I think going back to being U of D is an essential step to growing and upgrading.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby dennycrane » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:12 pm

Welcome to the discussion about Loyola's success in moving to a better league, St Joe. In commenting about this, you made the points that they have a much larger city than us, a much bigger endowment and three times the student population of UDM. These are fair points. Let me bring up another legacy Catholic opponent of ours, St Bonaventure. The Bonnies this season won the Atlantic 10 regular season championship and the tournament championship last week over VCU. They appeared in the Big Dance in 2018 also and in 2012, the last year Detroit did. Now, the Bonnies' home city, on a good day, may have 15,000 in population. Their student body is less than 3,000, about 55% of ours, and I'm not aware of their endowment number but it's much less than Loyola's, I would think. Yet, St Bona pursues success under the tutelage of a good coach and they have achieved it in recent years.

I did some research, St Joe, and the Bonnies had the wisdom to join a quality league, the A-10, in 1979 and have remained there the entire time. Interestingly, Villanova was also in the A-10 at that time but soon moved to the Big East when it formed. The A-10 today has 14 members, many of them Catholic, and is very solid in men's basketball, above the Missouri Valley but below the Big East and, of course, the Power 5 conferences.

Detroit, as we know, joined the MCC in 1981 with some of our Catholic opponents and other private schools like Butler, Evansville, and Oral Roberts. Schools like Butler, Xavier and Loyola would go on to thrive while Oklahoma City planned all along to decline in basketball and was in NAIA last I checked. Then, in 1994, we made the big mistake by remaining stagnant while the MidCon schools joined. For a few years, Perry Watson led us to some great victories but mostly the program has been in managed decline most of the 2000s.

The present Horizon League, St Joe, is the lowest level of competition Detroit has played since World War 2, at least. As a result, it's champion cannot advance from the resulting 15 seed, as Cleveland State showed again last night. If this is what we want, then we have it. But, if we want to do better, it will not be by beating IUPUI and Bob Morris and Youngstown State. We need a better league and the leadership to take us there. And, right now, we don't have it.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby titanmac » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:39 pm

just as a aside, the increase in donations contributions, applications and enrollment at butler has been well documented by the bulldogs as a result of there bball success. collateral benefits not to be denied. you can look it up....
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby NC Titan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:04 am

Bonaventure's endowment is $72 million, about the same as ours.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby ptctitan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:09 am

We can't change the past; but we can change the future.

In last week's virtual roundball bruncheon event on Zoom, Coach Davis stated very clearly that his goal was to make us a Big East caliber team. That gives us options. To that end, the university has launched its Road to a Championship campaign (RTC) intended to bring our mid-century modern arena and facilities into the 21st century. This effort is led by former players, Terry Page, Dan Kennedy, and Willie Green. Former players, Wilbert McCormick, Laval Perry, and Earl Cureton are also on this committee. In fact, 50% of this committee consists of former players. This effort is being supported directly by the university President because he understands that the publicity from a strong flagship men's basketball program can significantly increase applications for admissions and add to the social amenities on campus.

As alumni or fans, we now each have a choice. We can live in the past and continue to bemoan the mistakes of the past. Or we can move towards a solution over the next 12 months. With a Big East caliber men's BB team, we can choose the best route: 1) the Gonzaga route of dominating our existing conference; or, 2) the Butler-Dayton-Xavier route of moving up to a stronger conference. RTC is the first step towards a real solution that will give us options in college athletics and that will enhance the university's ability to increase its total enrollment. Hopefully, you will join this effort to implement a real solution.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby titanmac » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:27 am

noone in this thread has bemoaned the mistakes of the past. what it has done is provide a framework for advancing the program. on the other hand i, for one, will not now become an apologist for the string of poor decisions that have led us to this point. the only healthy approach is a willingness to understand the depth of the mistakes so that we can reverse the spiral. a good start, whether you want to believe it or not, would be to scrap the "detmer" moniker.... symbolic? maybe so? but it sends the right message.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby ptctitan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:41 pm

No one is asking anyone to excuse the mistakes of the past - recent, ancient and in between. The RTC program was developed after close consultation with the men's BB coaching staff. It seeks to implement a list of their priorities in the order they provided. Personally, I believe strongly that our teams should play under the name "Detroit Titans." But my opinion is not a pre-condition for my support (financial and otherwise) to achieve these goals. For me, it is more important at this point in time to build a consistently winning team that has the talent every year to compete effectively in the Big East. Coach Davis says that the most important recruiting questions he must answer to players and their parents are: 1) where will he live; 2) what and where will he eat; and 3) how well can he be taken care of if he gets hurt. If you want a team that can compete effectively in the Big East, then we have to address these and other issues first. Ultimately, I think that when the RTC succeeds, we will see our sports team compete as the Detroit Titans. Until then, do you want a winning team? I do.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby titanmac » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:43 pm

excuse those of us who have seen all
this before for taking a wait and see attitude....
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby Commissioner » Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:53 pm

titanmac wrote:excuse those of us who have seen all
this before for taking a wait and see attitude....

Nope, not gonna excuse you. This is pretty much it. We don't need to dwell on the past to know that we have missed lots of opportunities. Our window keeps shrinking. There won't be many more opportunities.

We've got a plan, a good coach, we should field a very good team next year, the goal has been set. I've contributed to the Road To a Championship campaign, and I'm not an alum. Every alum here ought to have contributed, and reached deep. You can't sit around and say "why don't we move on," and then when the University says, "ok, you're right, we want to be Big East quality, and here's how we get there," turn around and say, "no, I'm taking a wait and see attitude."

Here's the link to contribute: https://www.udmercy.edu/giving/campaign/athletics.php
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby titanmac » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:52 am

nice to see you pop in here from time to time your pithiness. you are not now now have you ever been an alum. so feel free to butt out. big time donors don't donate to lost causes let alone mediocre one's, in the absence of some insurance for their benevolence and their legacy, they are more than likely to look elsewhere. i have been bored with playing rhetorical vollyball with you for quite sometime. whatever you might know about x's and o's rarely extends itself to the variables impacting a strong and growth oriented bureacracy.

besides all that, those of us who have been regular donors for many years, including myself, can and do contribute according to their means and have no reason to shout out their beneficence online. the big time donors will require much more.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby ptctitan » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:47 am

Here is an excerpt from an article in the April 22, 2015 Loyola (Chi)'s student newspaper called the Loyola Phoenix.

http://loyolaphoenix.com/2015/04/the-hefty-price-tag-of-loyola-athletics/

"The Athletic Department used donations to open the $26 million Norville Center for Intercollegiate Athletics in 2011. The three-story center includes a student-athlete academic center, a sports medicine facility, modern locker rooms and state-of-the-art strength and conditioning equipment."

RTC is taking the same approach as Loyola. We will build it first so we have the infrastructure in place that will enable us to have options in the future. IMO, we no longer have the luxury to wait and see.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby titanmike » Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:45 pm

titanmac wrote:nice to see you pop in here from time to time your pithiness. you are not now now have you ever been an alum. so feel free to butt out. big time donors don't donate to lost causes let alone mediocre one's, in the absence of some insurance for their benevolence and their legacy, they are more than likely to look elsewhere. i have been bored with playing rhetorical vollyball with you for quite sometime. whatever you might know about x's and o's rarely extends itself to the variables impacting a strong and growth oriented bureacracy.

besides all that, those of us who have been regular donors for many years, including myself, can and do contribute according to their means and have no reason to shout out their beneficence online. the big time donors will require much more.


I think we all forget from time to time the message that is our forum rules. "please be courteous to one another and have some fun!"

Kind of like one of my parish priests comments after mass and before everyone left church. "Go now and be kind to one another in the parking lot"

We are a parking lot of fans here and the prerequisite is that we all are fans regardless of our having been a graduate or not. We shouldn't be sending away people because they don't agree with us and they didn't graduate from the school.

Unfortunately it's comments like the above Mac that send people away. It would seem to me, that someone who also created a website for Titan fans, has a vested interest in the success of the program. You can see that the number of posters on here has been severely diminished over the last few years. Somewhat in part to a lack of success on the court, somewhat a lack of an update of this website (of which I dont have the partnership or time anymore to move forward with improvements), and the tone and tenor of the website.

I don't expect everyone to always get along, but I think we can respect and I expect, that we scrutinize each others opinions without going hostile. This goes for everyone.

I would rather we laugh a bit, share a bit, and do all that we can to support Men's Basketball and all of the other programs we offer than bicker with each other.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby NC Titan » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:14 pm

I have watched the decline in traffic on this site, sadly because the format is easier to navigate, but in general I lay that at the feet of fans disinclined to spend time on the board for a nascent program.

At first I suspected that a lot of people were abandoning this site for the other board, which I still visit (mostly for the Commissioner's information and witty writing) but don't post because it's not a welcoming group of posters. I have the same observation about that site. They seem to have about six or eight regular posters -- and some of those are individuals with multiple sign-ons. So it's a few people echoing each other. The demographics on the other site appears to be younger, unfairly critical and skeptical of the program, and denigrating to the Athletics staff and even to the players.

The online Roundball Brunches outdraw the boards my multiples, and if you pay attention you can get some good information.

Bottom line, I think that when we bolt out of the gate, generate some excitement, and start to draw fans back then the traffic on both sites will grow.
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Re: loyola advances; succeeds...

Postby The-Dude » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:33 am

Allow me to be serious for a moment. I think the message that “we can’t wait any longer and it’s now or never” is valid and does move the needle and requires us ALL to be supportive. At the same time, it is imperative that history does not repeat itself and I’m with Mac, in the sense that We’ve seen to many blunders not to feel a little helpless.
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