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Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:08 am
by R.B.J1
Adrian College was on its death bed a few years ago and they used athletics to boost their enrollment. I remember a few years ago when UDM was considering adding football it was due to the fact that it would help increase enrollment. Would the model that Adrian used to get back on its feet work at UDM?

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/colum ... /76210606/

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:28 pm
by Rogobob77
Sounds fishy to me.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:39 pm
by Rogobob77
Much more expensive to add programs at D-1 compared to D-3, due to scholarships, higher coaching salaries, travel in more geographically dispersed leagues, etc. That said, if you can establish a business case that it would be cost effective, definitely worth considering.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:34 pm
by R.B.J1
Rogobob77 wrote:Sounds fishy to me.


I am not an accountant, nor was I a business major, but somehow the numbers do not seem to add as a positive to me. I am assuming that most of the players are on partial scholarships, therefore they aren't paying the entire $48,000. So, if they give a student athlete a 10k per semester scholarship the student needs to come up with the other 28k?

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:24 pm
by Titan Andrew
R.B.J1 wrote:
Rogobob77 wrote:Sounds fishy to me.


I am not an accountant, nor was I a business major, but somehow the numbers do not seem to add as a positive to me. I am assuming that most of the players are on partial scholarships, therefore they aren't paying the entire $48,000. So, if they give a student athlete a 10k per semester scholarship the student needs to come up with the other 28k?


It is D-3 so technically they can't give out athletic scholarships. I bet that they are similar to UDM where they have a high sticker price but most students receive scholarships or grants to reduce the price significantly. In the article it states that the bass fishing coach is a former pro who has a lot of contacts in the sport so I would bet that the sponsorships would defray much of the costs of the boats, trucks and other equipment. The more students they can have paying tuition, the better the bottom line for the school. I would think that Adrian's model is similar to UDM's model with men's lax.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:05 pm
by R.B.J1
Lawrence Tech is reviving its football program. I am assuming its going to be non scholarship. I don't see how its going to work, the football field they built has stands set up for about 20 people. I am assuming that the players will all be tuition paying walk-ons. Whatever happened to UDM attempting to revive football? The previous AD discussed it, but then it quickly died out.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/colle ... /96978292/

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:52 am
by Rogobob77
Detroit News article on Lawrence Tech's move to bring back football:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports ... /97121174/

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:02 pm
by Tacitus651
UDM reviving football is the dumbest idea I've ever heard of regarding higher education.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:38 am
by titanmac
actually a lot of small schools do it. there's a patriot league we would have approached. the impetus was initiated under that wioman and one of the more dynamic priests at the school was leading the charge...cant remember his name but he's moved on. i think its a great idea. there was talk about building a joint facility between the high school and the u. the highschool doesn't have a home field. a nice synergy. anyways he stumbled all over itself for awhile. i think it would be very successful and easily outdraw lacrosse and basketball. another missed opportunity. not to late to resurrect it i suppose....

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:30 pm
by lurkingdog
It was the Pioneer Football League that the previous AD was looking at.

The PFL will be back at 11 members in 2021, when Presbyterian joins. The league will want a 12th school.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:21 pm
by Tacitus651
UDM reviving football is still the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Pioneer League, Justice League, Amateur Beer League. The league is irrelevant. Stupid idea - NO FOOTBALL!

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:11 am
by titanmike
Tacitus651 wrote:UDM reviving football is still the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Pioneer League, Justice League, Amateur Beer League. The league is irrelevant. Stupid idea - NO FOOTBALL!


I agree. If it isn't D1, I don't care from a fan standpoint.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:42 am
by Tacitus651
If you’re not D1 AND a top 25 perennial program, you’re probably hemorrhaging money with it.

Plus, it is (rightfully) a dying sport: http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/ ... n-of-proof

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:58 pm
by Rogobob77
FWIW, Madonna adding football starting in 2020.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:59 pm
by Tacitus651
Rogobob77 wrote:FWIW, Madonna adding football starting in 2020.


Bahahahahahaha.

This decision will END their institution. One less school for us to compete with for local students.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:49 pm
by DetroitBASKETBALL
titanmike wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:UDM reviving football is still the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Pioneer League, Justice League, Amateur Beer League. The league is irrelevant. Stupid idea - NO FOOTBALL!


I agree. If it isn't D1, I don't care from a fan standpoint.


Valpo and Butler are in the D1 FCS non scholarship Pioneer League, Valpos cost of program is between 600k and 800k, the greater amount in the year they have to travel to San Diego University a team in their league. Avg of 85 football players paying after other aid tuition of $20,000 per year and many room and board of $10,000 per year. They average 2400 fans for home games and students have an activity on a Saturday in fall. They also get to play Butler, Dayton and Duquesne on regular basis, those are good rivalries to have. Not happening at our school due to lack of facilities to house football. By the way both Butler and Valpo are in the green on football due to not giving out scholarships and they are not top 25 but thanks for playing Tacitus!

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:08 pm
by Tacitus651
DetroitBASKETBALL wrote:
titanmike wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:UDM reviving football is still the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Pioneer League, Justice League, Amateur Beer League. The league is irrelevant. Stupid idea - NO FOOTBALL!


I agree. If it isn't D1, I don't care from a fan standpoint.


Valpo and Butler are in the D1 FCS non scholarship Pioneer League, Valpos cost of program is between 600k and 800k, the greater amount in the year they have to travel to San Diego University a team in their league. Avg of 85 football players paying after other aid tuition of $20,000 per year and many room and board of $10,000 per year. They average 2400 fans for home games and students have an activity on a Saturday in fall. They also get to play Butler, Dayton and Duquesne on regular basis, those are good rivalries to have. Not happening at our school due to lack of facilities to house football. By the way both Butler and Valpo are in the green on football due to not giving out scholarships and they are not top 25 but thanks for playing Tacitus!


Valpo and Butler are selling tickets for $10 and $12 dollars. Guess what, it costs money to operate and maintain a stadium, even turf. Security, cleaning, etc. OK, so they have 85 non-scholarship players. You cannot assign all that money to the football program because it costs money to educate kids (faculty, advisors, heat, air, electricity, etc.) Tuition dollars are not elastic. Even if you attributed part of the ticket sales and part of the tuition revenue from the players, football is expensive (coaches, equipment, hauling said equipment, weight facilities that need to be maintained, insurance, and on and on). I'd be curious if Valpo or Butler had any communication claiming to be revenue positive on football.

Re: Would this work @UDM

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:35 pm
by DetroitBASKETBALL
Just told you football operating costs were 600-800k. Even if you split the costs of maintaining stadium, they have stadium for men's and women's soccer, cross country and track and field. Cost to educate per student is not 20k either, they come out on top with the margins and they are better off then most FBS and FCS D1 programs that have all the same costs plus pay scholarships. So yes in this case football makes sense.