What If?

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What If?

Postby R.B.J1 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:25 pm

I think someone should start a "What If" post about the UofD mens basketball program. I cant do it because my research skills are lacking and I work 64 hours a week. I nominate the commish for this position. In the mid to late 1980's when Mizzou was heavily recruiting the Detroit PSL and were often called the Mizzou Detroit Tigers I became a fan. I wasn't too happy when John Mcintyre transferred from UofD to Mizzou. Anyway here is how Mizzou did their "what if" blog.
http://mizzousanity.blogspot.com/search ... at%20If%3F

The what if in regards to what could've happened if Will Robinson had been hired has been somewhat done. Maybe we can start our "what if" with what would've happened if Don Haskins had kept the job in 1969. Thanks in advance commish. :D ;)
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Re: What If?

Postby Motor City Sam » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:07 pm

Short term what if: What if Corenntae DeBerry and Lorenzo Bonam had qualified out of high school and joined the Titans immediately as college freshmen?

Long term what if: What if the program had made a good enough offer to keep Smokey Gaines on the bench before he left for the West Coast?
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Re: What If?

Postby NC Titan » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:38 pm

What if Earl Cureton hadn't been sitting out a transfer year during Tyler and Long's senior year?
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Re: What If?

Postby titanmac » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:16 pm

I hate this game already.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that basketball court out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans! (with apologies to coach boon)
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Re: What If?

Postby Motor City Sam » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:53 pm

NC Titan wrote:What if Earl Cureton hadn't been sitting out a transfer year during Tyler and Long's senior year?



That's one I had not considered before. Good call.
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Re: What If?

Postby Commissioner » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:45 am

What if Ervin Johnson had been the point guard on the 1978 and 1979 teams? (His three finalists were MSU, UM and UD).

To me the most relevant what if--if you want to play this game--is what if the Titans had joined the Great Midwest in the early 1990s? The Titans were actively and strongly considered when the league was founded in 1990s, and again when the league expanded in 1993. I don't know if we were actually invited or not, but it appears that the cash-strapped university's unwillingness to commit money cost us the opportunity. The Great Midwest started with Cincinnati, Memphis, DePaul, Marquette, St. Louis, and UAB. In 1993 it added Dayton. The league's coaches really wanted to add Detroit, in part for the then fertile recruiting territory. After the 1995 season the first six of those schools became part of the new Conference USA, while Dayton was left out and moved to the Atlantic 10. St. Louis later moved to the A10 as well.

I fear that may have been our last good chance to remain a serious player in college basketball nationally. In the late 90s, during Perry's best years, there was some talk about trying to move to the MVC, but I don't think it was ever serious. And when Ray pulled together a team with young Ray, Calliste, and Eli Holman (not to mention Minnerath, but I don't think people realized how good he was at first) it looked like we might have one more shot, but that was always going to be a long shot. Had we made that move to the Great Midwest in 1990, its likely that now we'd be in CUSA. CUSA is a shell of its old self, but I think most people still think of it as better than the Horizon. With luck and management, though, we might be in the Atlantic 10 or the American Conference. We'd have more attractive opponents coming into Calihan, we'd have some positive recruiting advantages. We'd be in a position much like we were in for most of the 50s, 60s, and 70s--a solid program, not a top national power but a program that could expect to be a factor nationally in its stronger years.

Update: Actually, we probably wouldn't be in CUSA, since they've worked to get rid of all their non-football members. I feel pretty good we'd be somewhere other than the Horizon, if this had come about.
Last edited by Commissioner on Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What If?

Postby Tacitus651 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:04 am

What if we didn't get screwed with that 15 seed in the 2012 NCAA Tourney? Dick Vitale said on ESPN right before the brackets came out that "Detroit is dangerous as a 12 seed." I think he was right. I feel we deserved at least a 13 and there's a huge difference between #2 Kansas (could have been a 1) and a 4 or 5 seed. Think we could have won a game ... which leads to some media, recruiting, and so on.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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Re: What If?

Postby ExcitedTitan » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:20 am

What if Brad Soderberg had accepted the job before they offered it to Ray?
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Re: What If?

Postby AmenBrother » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:25 am

What if Coach Ray and the players didn't have to endure the moans and groans from his Asst Coach and AD from the neighboring hotel rooms for years? This probably will have a traumatic effect on Coach Ray and the players for years.
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Re: What If?

Postby TitanVoiceofReason » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:42 am

What if Kevin Kaseta didn't tear up his knee early on in the 1976-77 season? A former player told me the team believed that injury cost them a legitimate chance at winning the NCAA championship. I think the injury happened in the 3rd game of the season. Kaseta was a good offensive PF while Ron Bostic was a high energy shot blocking mad dog off the bench. What a combination that would have been!
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Re: What If?

Postby Commissioner » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:27 am

AmenBrother wrote:What if Coach Ray and the players didn't have to endure the moans and groans from his Asst Coach and AD from the neighboring hotel rooms for years? This probably will have a traumatic effect on Coach Ray and the players for years.

Give us a break. This kind of comment is why you have so little cred here.
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Re: What If?

Postby AmenBrother » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:35 am

Commish- Your opinion is always welcome as is mine. Back at you with mutual feelings.
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Re: What If?

Postby TitanTarHeel » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:38 am

The What If game is especially tough for UD fans to go thru - given our past and given all the times you can go back and say 'if only this, then we'd be XYZ' - with many of the XYZ scenarios being more interesting and successful then the path we ended up on. Alas, that is life. So yes there are regrets and coulda/woulda/shouldas. Its also a nod to our long, proud past.

For me, so much of it goes to the 70's and 80's when white flight was at its height and the city emptying out really was in earnest. It took a municipal bankruptcy to stem the tide and signal that better times may not be on there way for the city. The University followed the same trajectory with the city eventually necessitating the merger with Mercy. At the same time UD Jesuit was debating moving itself out to greener pastures of the boring suburbs. Thank goodness they didn't do that.

I'm younger then many on here (not everyone), but in my lifetime I do recall our HUGE rivals being the likes of Xavier and Butler. Those were intense, heated matchups with great ball played on both sides. So my What If is if we were able to parlay our success int he late 90's and take the next half or full steps forward that so many others did - XU, BU, Creighton, Gonzaga, etc. We were right there and seemingly ready to and it just didn't come together. Now we are floundering in a pretty pedestrian conference nowadays and light years from that chance we once had a mere 15 years ago or so.
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Re: What If?

Postby uofdfan83 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:44 am

What if...
We all realized how lucky we all are to be Titan Fans.
Three examples here, but I could come up with 100 if I wanted to.
1) When my Mom died almost 6 years ago, the funeral was held on a February Morning with a major snowstorm underway. A Titan Club Member(aka an Angell) drove from his home in Plymouth across town to the church in St. Clair Shores. He almost made it, spinning out a mile from his exit on I-94. A carload of U-D Athletic Dept Employees noticed his UDM license plate on the shoulder and stopped and took care of him. Family showing up to support Family. Then Family helping when Family gets stuck in the snow. I was appreciative of all the people who made it to the Church that snowy morning, but just as appreciative of what this Angell did that morning even though he never made it.
2) Partying together into the night at the Chicago Hotel Bar after beating St. Johns. Family celebrating with Family. Singing the Fightsong (original version), sounding horrible, I am sure. But sweet music to all the ears in that Bar. Cheering the team as it returned to the Hotel. Looking up and seeing Ricky Byrdsong cheeering with our loyal group. Walking the empty halls of a large arena after the game celebrating, never feeling prouder of our guys, our University. MJ might have made the building famous, but our guys were the stars that night. Chills now as I write this. Much better than being a Sparty or Wolverine could ever be.
3) When "MSU Nation" or "Rebel Nation" loses a person who has morphed into an institution, it means most of the fans lose a "character". When we lose our Heart-and-Soul, we put his initials on the jerseys but more importantly, those of us who show up in The Hall on a regular basis lose a good friend. A personal friend. A human being who makes us smile because of a personal connection, something he did for us, or something he said to make us laugh after a tough loss. That's being a Titan. For Reggie Hall alone, I would rather be a Titan than anything else in the world.

We are luckier than MSU fans, U-M fans, and certainly OU fans. We are Titan Family.
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Re: What If?

Postby Rogobob77 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:55 am

What if DePaul would have joined the MCC when it was at its apex?

The league would have then been:

Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Detroit
Dayton
Loyola
Butler
St. Louis
Duquesne
LaSalle
Evansville

(With room for a 12th member, perhaps St. Joe's, Bradley, Creighton, or even Notre Dame, an MCC affiliate school at the time.)

With DePaul aboard, CUSA doesn't happen, the Great Midwest doesn't happen, and the MCC has the building blocks to mature into an all-private, basketball-only, predominantly Catholic, Midwest-centered basketball league. The above configuration is superior to today's A10 and would have had the potential to be on par with the current configuration of the Big East, perhaps superior if ND eventually came along. I think Detroit's program would have had a different trajectory in that league environment.

Had heard that the biggest stumbling block to getting DePaul was the fact that they didn't want to be in the same conference as Loyola.
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Re: What If?

Postby Commissioner » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:10 am

Rogobob77 wrote:What if DePaul would have joined the MCC when it was at its apex?

The league would have then been:

Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Detroit
Dayton
Loyola
Butler
St. Louis
Duquesne
LaSalle
Evansville

(With room for a 12th member, perhaps St. Joe's, Bradley, Creighton, or even Notre Dame, an MCC affiliate school at the time.)

With DePaul aboard, CUSA doesn't happen, the Great Midwest doesn't happen, and the MCC has the building blocks to mature into an all-private, basketball-only, predominantly Catholic, Midwest-centered basketball league. The above configuration is superior to today's A10 and would have had the potential to be on par with the current configuration of the Big East, perhaps superior if ND eventually came along. I think Detroit's program would have had a different trajectory in that league environment.

Had heard that the biggest stumbling block to getting DePaul was the fact that they didn't want to be in the same conference as Loyola.

Agreed. I've always blamed DePaul for the demise of the MCC. Not only wouldn't they join the MCC, they were the driving force behind the creation of the Great Midwest, which started the crack up of what was becoming a very good league.

Note that La Salle and Duquesne joined the MCC after Marquette and St. Louis split for the Great Midwest. Then the Great Midwest poached Dayton, which led Duquesne to run back to the A10 (Dayton had been instrumental in convincing them to join the MCC, assuring them that they were committed to the MCC and that the league would be stable).
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Re: What If?

Postby ExcitedTitan » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:17 am

AmenBrother wrote:What if Coach Ray and the players didn't have to endure the moans and groans from his Asst Coach and AD from the neighboring hotel rooms for years? This probably will have a traumatic effect on Coach Ray and the players for years.

It could be argued that the team played better then. Maybe we should go back to that "strategy."

FWIW, it was always in a different part of the hotel from where the coaches and team stayed
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Re: What If?

Postby theroundsquare » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:42 am

What if Detroit Henry Ford C Ken Johnson had kept his word and come to U-D instead of bolting for the brighter lights of Theeeeee Ohio State University? Those late 90s teams might've advanced into the elite eight.

Also, what if people had used some brainpower and kept the name "University of Detroit"? Dammit.
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Re: What If?

Postby udballer » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:52 am

Tacitus651 wrote:What if we didn't get screwed with that 15 seed in the 2012 NCAA Tourney? Dick Vitale said on ESPN right before the brackets came out that "Detroit is dangerous as a 12 seed." I think he was right. I feel we deserved at least a 13 and there's a huge difference between #2 Kansas (could have been a 1) and a 4 or 5 seed. Think we could have won a game ... which leads to some media, recruiting, and so on.


No offense, Tacitus... but we probably deserved the #15 seed. There was only one team in the field with more losses than our 13... and they were rightly placed as a 16 seed. An 11-7 Horizon League team should not expect a 12-seed, that or any other year.

In 98-99, we were 25-6 overall and 12-2 conference champions and got a 12 seed... after coming off an NCAA appearance (and first round win). That was the year I thought we got screwed with seeding.
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Re: What If?

Postby Motor City Sam » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:12 pm

theroundsquare wrote:What if Detroit Henry Ford C Ken Johnson had kept his word and come to U-D instead of bolting for the brighter lights of Theeeeee Ohio State University? Those late 90s teams might've advanced into the elite eight.

Also, what if people had used some brainpower and kept the name "University of Detroit"? Dammit.


I was just trying to think of that young man's name the other day. Thanks for posting that. He wasn't a great Big Ten player, but he would have made a huge impact for us. I was so disappointed when he went to the Scarlet and Gray.
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