Who would be your next coach

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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ptctitan » Tue May 01, 2018 9:47 pm

You can't make any intelligent decision about Gouard, or any other potential coach for that matter, unless you know who has applied for the job. I don't see anyone arguing here that Gouard is a slam dunk first choice to be hired. He has a record as a head coach that merits consideration. Apparently, he thinks that he has made it to the final group of candidates. In Indiana, he is thought to be "a heck of a coach." Can he make a successful transition to D1 outside of Indiana? Don't know. He did have a few years' experience as an assistant at Indiana St. Similar questions can be asked about Bronkema.

On paper, Youngstown St may have hired a much more successful D2 coach than Bronkema. Jerrod Calhoun went 34-3 at Fairmont State, a perennial D2 power in that part of the country. His first year at YSU was 8-24 with two losses to our woeful Titans.

We are not going to be able to hire a head coach who has won as a head coach at a top tier program. Hiring an assistant from a winning top tier program is a crap shoot. We succeeded with two - Dick Vitale + Smokey Gaines (Rutgers/Detroit) and Perry Watson (Michigan). We failed with 4: McCarter (Us when we were a top tier program), Sicko (Michigan), Byrdsong (Arizona), and Bacari (Michigan). McCallum was an assistant at Indiana, but had prior head coaching experience at Ball State and Houston. His tenure was a 50-50 experience.

At this point, given how far our program has declined in the past 5 years, we appear more like beggars than choosers. Gouard has his pluses and minuses. So will every other finalist for the job.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby Rogobob77 » Tue May 01, 2018 10:27 pm

Perhaps stating the obvious, there are three significant short-term negatives for the Titan MBB program that make the head coach position less attractive:

1. Mass exodus of roster players from an 8-win team due to graduation, academic issues and transfers.
2. Virtually no time available for incoming HC to recruit players to fill mammoth roster holes due to poorly executed coaching search.
3. Reduced salary for HC and assistants due to the fact we will likely still be paying remaining years on BA’s contract.

Those issues would almost certainly keep away candidates with demonstrated head coaching success at a top-tier program who would be looking to land in greener pastures than can be found on McNichols and Livernois.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ptctitan » Wed May 02, 2018 9:05 am

Re: Gouard and whether he has Michigan ties. According to info on the other board, at U Indy, Gouard has already signed a 6'8" kid from Grand Rapids Catholic. Also, the brother of Hankerson (from Novi) on GB recently took an official visit to Gouard's school.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ExcitedTitan » Wed May 02, 2018 9:42 am

Ties to Michigan are overrated. These kids play in AAU ball all over the midwest/country and every kid has a ton of film. There are also many recruiting resources and services. A coach from Indiana is going to know who all the top prospects are in Michigan (and Ohio and Indiana) and likely know their AAU coaches fairly well. Its not like these coaches have to scour every h.s. gym in the state to find that hidden talent. If there seems to be some mutual interest then they build a relationship. Its not like this guy from Indiana will not know anyone in Michigan or by shunned, or that he can't quickly build bonds with h.s. school coaches who want to send their player to a DI school.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby Tacitus651 » Wed May 02, 2018 9:52 am

I miss Ray.
"Anything that can be done in college basketball can be done from right here.” - Coach Davis
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed May 02, 2018 9:55 am

Tacitus651 wrote:I miss Ray.

+1
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby titanmike » Wed May 02, 2018 10:01 am

Tacitus651 wrote:I miss Ray.


What do you miss about him?
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed May 02, 2018 10:42 am

titanmike wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:I miss Ray.


What do you miss about him?


He improved the program and was better than his replacement. I think he kind of backed off when he wanted an extension and didn't get it so he felt his time was limited by the then new administration. I did feel he changed a little for the worse when the President and then AD were hired. I am not sure what signals he was getting or perceived to be getting but he seemed to become a little more hesitant and unsure of himself. He was Keri's hire and might have felt Vowels would want to put his own stamp on things which he certainly has done. I felt Ray recruited well and was a good representative of the program. I do not feel he was as good as St. Perry but Ray did hold things together and was just a few bounces and breaks from doing really well and I have no doubt he could assess talent. I sure felt a lot safer when he was driving the bus.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby titanmike » Wed May 02, 2018 11:21 am

upbasketballfan wrote:
titanmike wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:I miss Ray.


What do you miss about him?


He improved the program and was better than his replacement. I think he kind of backed off when he wanted an extension and didn't get it so he felt his time was limited by the then new administration. I did feel he changed a little for the worse when the President and then AD were hired. I am not sure what signals he was getting or perceived to be getting but he seemed to become a little more hesitant and unsure of himself. He was Keri's hire and might have felt Vowels would want to put his own stamp on things which he certainly has done. I felt Ray recruited well and was a good representative of the program. I do not feel he was as good as St. Perry but Ray did hold things together and was just a few bounces and breaks from doing really well and I have no doubt he could assess talent. I sure felt a lot safer when he was driving the bus.


I like/liked Ray a lot, from what I have heard there is more to the story. I also think that in a lot of respects even the "more to the story" isn't entirely his fault. For all of the variables you say, yes he could drive the bus, but the people on the bus were going round and round, round and round.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed May 02, 2018 11:38 am

upbasketballfan wrote:
titanmike wrote:
Tacitus651 wrote:I miss Ray.


He improved the program and was better than his replacement. I think he kind of backed off when he wanted an extension and didn't get it so he felt his time was limited by the then new administration. I did feel he changed a little for the worse when the President and then AD were hired. I am not sure what signals he was getting or perceived to be getting but he seemed to become a little more hesitant and unsure of himself. He was Keri's hire and might have felt Vowels would want to put his own stamp on things which he certainly has done. I felt Ray recruited well and was a good representative of the program. I do not feel he was as good as St. Perry but Ray did hold things together and was just a few bounces and breaks from doing really well and I have no doubt he could assess talent. I sure felt a lot safer when he was driving the bus.


I like/liked Ray a lot, from what I have heard there is more to the story. I also think that in a lot of respects even the "more to the story" isn't entirely his fault. For all of the variables you say, yes he could drive the bus, but the people on the bus were going round and round, round and round.


Now since RV has put his stamp on things it feels like we the fans, are the ones riding the merry-go- round and it sure is getting a lot less crowded on the carousel and in the Titan Club. As far as the bus, have you noticed that it seems to have disappeared? I myself would rather have to wait in line a little. It kind of adds to the experience. As to the story there always seems to be something added once a guy isn't there to contradict or defend himself.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby titanmike » Wed May 02, 2018 11:46 am

I agree that's why I use caution and mentioned I think its less him then others.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed May 02, 2018 12:00 pm

titanmike wrote:I agree that's why I use caution and mentioned I think its less him then others.


I keep thinking it would be fun to have the bus for some of the away games and if Vowels was to come along maybe we could tell everyone but him that it was leaving 20 min. early. Well who ever the new coach is he sure does have his work cut out for him.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Wed May 02, 2018 12:30 pm

The bad news is that Gouard's best player last year just transferred to Loyola and will have 2 years left. If Gouard was to get our job this is probably another player Vowels has cost the program. the longer he is AD the more he will decimate this University!
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ExcitedTitan » Wed May 02, 2018 3:11 pm

upbasketballfan wrote:I did feel he changed a little for the worse when the President and then AD were hired.

I miss Keri and Ray.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ptctitan » Thu May 03, 2018 7:06 am

upbasketballfan wrote:I did feel he changed a little for the worse when the President and then AD were hired.


The President was hired in 2011 - before the HL championship season. About 17 months before the AD's affair with Ray's assistant coach become public knowledge.

ExcitedTitan wrote:I miss Keri and Ray.


I don't miss Keri Gaither at all.

Keri Gaither is the person most responsible for the mess that we call the Detroit Mercy Athletic Department in May 2018. She conducted an adulterous affair with Ray's assistant coach, Derrick Thomas, on school time and using school money. That affair gave ammunition to Carlos Briggs to use when he encountered a problem in 2012 or when he tried to advance his career soon after the end of the 2011-12 season in which we appeared in the NCAA. The result was that Ray lost his two senior assistants for the entire 2012-13 season. Not only did this leave Ray understaffed but also, while the affair was ongoing, it undermined Ray's authority over his staff and some of his players. Players left, talent drained, and they were never replaced with talent anywhere close to the overall level on the team from 2009-13. Ray never recovered from the disclosure of this sabotage.

The only reason Vowels is here is because of Gaither's malfeasance. Garibaldi brought in someone he could trust in order to try and clean up the department. This led to JJ, Bacari, falling attendance, and a lot of other things about which many here complain. Keri Gaither was AD in name only. When tested on her priorities, she chose priorities other than her job. In that respect, she acted like she was still Kinsman's secretary instead of a department head running a Division 1 athletic program. Her tryst occurred on the road in rooms paid for by funds in the department's budget, much of which were donated to the school by many here in the hopes that Ray would continue to improve the men's BB program. She misused your money. She violated basic management and ethical principles in relation to her job. In that context, her better communication skills with fans and alumni can be viewed in the same light as any other con who talks people out of their money so it can be used for personal gain or personal pleasure. If Gaither had acted ethically, we would not have needed to replace her.

Her lack of professionalism in performing her duties to the university have left the last 6 years littered with the wreckage of what was even recently a proud and successful program. She screwed around with one of her employees and ended up screwing the school that had entrusted her with its Athletic Department. I don't miss Typhoid Keri one bit.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ExcitedTitan » Thu May 03, 2018 7:30 am

Vowels has done more damage than Keri by doing nothing. I agree with the harm Keri did to Ray but your statement of expenses is overstated since she would have had that room on many of those trips anyway. I'm not saying she should not have been let go, but Vowels has done absolutely NOTHING since he has been here, except hire a crappy coach, watch attendance fall off a cliff, and destroy the Titan Club.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu May 03, 2018 7:55 am

ExcitedTitan wrote:Vowels has done more damage than Keri by doing nothing. I agree with the harm Keri did to Ray but your statement of expenses is overstated since she would have had that room on many of those trips anyway. I'm not saying she should not have been let go, but Vowels has done absolutely NOTHING since he has been here, except hire a crappy coach, watch attendance fall off a cliff, and destroy the Titan Club.


ET I was screaming abnormalities were going on before the Thomas affair was exposed. An AD does not go on every road trip with the men's BB team. An AD does not sit in the bar and drink with the same individual and then keep putting it on the Dept. credit card and leave messages on the wrong dept. phone trying to connect. Keri did do a lot of damage and never should have been the AD but Garibaldi and Vowels never should have been hired either. I think the way AG handled the affair and the Carlos deal put Ray on his heals and he did seem to withdraw.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ExcitedTitan » Thu May 03, 2018 9:15 am

Up, I agree with everything you said. And I still think Vowels is a worse AD than Keri. I was being facetious about missing Keri, but I think I would miss Vowels less. Lets hope we find out soon if I am right.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby ptctitan » Thu May 03, 2018 9:24 am

I explained why I don't miss Keri Gaither. That's all.

I did not express an opinion about Mr. Vowels. If I choose to express such an opinion, I would do so in one or more of the several topics that call for his ouster.
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Re: Who would be your next coach

Postby upbasketballfan » Thu May 03, 2018 9:33 am

ExcitedTitan wrote:Up, I agree with everything you said. And I still think Vowels is a worse AD than Keri. I was being facetious about missing Keri, but I think I would miss Vowels less. Lets hope we find out soon if I am right.


+1
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